Cloth orientation and stretching

[capella166]

Hi everyone, it's my first post on the forum and thanks to those who will help me,

I bought an old Burroughes and Watts 6x12 table and I'm actually on the process of assembling it.
I have a few questions regarding the cloth and the levelling on another topic to follow.

Because it's only the second time only I will be installing a cloth on a snooker table, I want to practice my installation on the used one that came with the table.
The cloth is not totally worn out, but it must be an old one as it's an Hainsworth toptable, but no mention if it's a Smart, Match or Precision one.

I notice that the back of the cloth is still in very good shape, and my first question is, will the back side play better than the 75-80% worn out correct side. I know that their is the nap on the correct side, but never heard off the playability of the wrong side (can't find anything on Internet also).

I'm not hoping that the wrong back side of this old cloth will play close to a new one, but just wonder how it will behave until i decid if I trust my skill to buy and install a brand new one...

I'm also planning to test how much I can stretch the cloth on this used one for a few reasons.

First, I prefer to find the limit with this old one in case I stretch it too much and it tear.
Secondly, I want to stretch it more than the previous installation to get ride of rail line made by the balls.
Thirdly, there is a small tear close to the top rail and I have to get the tear pass the rail to go close to the wood lining strip ideally or under the rail at least.
Fourtly, I hope the cloth will be faster if I stretch it more.

Regarding this, my question is how much can I realistically strectch the cloth before it tear or no longer strech or I won't be able to fit the pocket, etc...
Let's say if the original unstretched dimension of the cloth is around 73''x144'', how many inchs in total can I expect to stretch it on the short side and long side?
What would be approximately the final dimension of the cloth stretch to the limit, and also for a normal new cloth eventually?
I just want to have a guide line to start from the people who already done this numerous of time or have experienced it themselfs.

Thanks for helping !!!

[itsnoteasy]

From what I have seen in the cub the cloth doesn't stretch that much. The lines and spots are much less than an inch from the original positions. The table does play a bit faster after it's been done but I don't know how long that lasts.

[Danger Steve]

Lots of questions their which makes me wonder if it’s a good idea for you to be attempting a cloth stretch?? Have you watched many videos of table fitters stretching cloths to have a good idea of the method/process required?

In terms of can you stretch a cloth to the point of ripping it?! Unless it’s a no.10 or precision cloth or really worn out out thin old cloth I doubt you’d have the strength to rip it while stretching... What you have to be VERY careful with on a re-stretch are the middle pockets where the cloth has already been cut, here you can tear the cloth without much effort at all so you need to be really careful to pull both sides of the cut together!

There is a sweet spot you can go when stretching a new cloth but only experience can tell you where this is, each cloth is differnent, it’s more of a ‘feel’. On a re-stretch you’ll be lucky to go more than maybe an inch further than it was previously I would say, so getting rid of the tram lines won’t be possible without buying a new cloth. But it’s a good idea using the old cloth to practice on, that is exactly what I did.

I’d highly recommend buying the cloth fitting DVD off EBay, by ‘easy snooker’ I found this very useful when it came to my own DIY cloth stretch. Also I’d recommend getting yourself a magnetic tack hammer.

[capella166]

Thanks for your input itsnoteasy

[itsnoteasy]

One thing I can add. We had lines along the black spot to the pockets, and above in a kind of cross shape, I'm guessing that s what you are on about. I always thought they were wear lines ,with me doing constant line ups on the same table. Anyway when it was recovered my pal saved the cloth to put on a couple of pool tables that are saved for some kids that come from a special needs school. He decided to take the cloth home for a wash and stuck it in the washing machine. All the lines disappeared completely, they weren't wear lines it ended up being just chalk trails all the way to the pocket. That really surprised both of us. The cloth came up really nice after the wash.

[Danger Steve]

I watched a Facebook live video broadcast last week where a table fitter explained that cloth manufacturers hate that cloths are re-stretched because what you are essentially doing is opening up the weave of the cloth and damaging it, albeit on a microscopic level.... the lady from Hainsworth cringed when they started talking about re-stretching cloth.... but as the fitter pointed out, it makes the cloth play faster because the weave has been stretched thinner and therefore his customer are happier with a faster table.

At the end of the day the thinner the cloth the faster it plays but also the faster is wears. You can try and stretch the death out of a thick cloth but it still won’t make much difference, only maybe damaging it or yourself. You’d be best off using the old cloth for fitting practice and once confident get a Strachan Superfine or a 6811 tournament or Hainsworth Match? If money is no object then go for a Hainsworth Precision or Strachan No.10. Just remember to fit a 6811 tournament or Match cushion cloth.

After that if your still wanting the table to run faster then you need to look at table heating. Take a look at my Project Snooker Shed blog... I cover table heating DIY on there!

[capella166]

Thanks for your input Danger Steve,

I looked at some Youtube video, and will be looking for the one on EBay.
You are right, I would not risk attempting to stretch a brand new cloth now, that why I want to practice on the used one and being able to evaluate how the whole table play.
On my first attemp to e-installed a used 6x12 cloth, as you mentionned, the middle pocket were not a succes...

On the other hand, I also bought, move and re-installed a pool 9 footer table 3 years ago, and I put back the original cloth on it.
The original owner had traced many black lines and box on the cloth that he was using for drills. I had to replace it to about1/8 inch a the same place...
It took me 6 hours alone, but I manage to do a more than acceptable job, so I'm looking for learning here ...

Thanks for your post on the build of your snooker room, it's impresive ...

Have a nice days !!!

[capella166]

I read that it would ruin the cloth to machine wash it, but I guess that for kid in need, it's better than nothing.
Although, It's interessting to know that the wear lines or tram lines as Danger Steve called them, may just be some chalks lines...

Just to share some tips, on the cloths I want to reinstall, I was wondering how to remove the baulk lines, D and spot mark, without washing it, and after a couple of hours of forums reading, I found that they can be erase with Q-tips and acetone... I tough that it will leave a mark as the green would fade, but it turn out that I can barely see where were the ink .... It would be hard to know for someone that doesnt know that it was erase ... It took me about 1 hour to remove...

[capella166]

Yes, I looked at your heating system picture Danger Steve, but did not have time to read everything.

As you may expect, I had this table in pretty good shape for about 350 british pound.
I was watching for a long time for a table to this quality almost free...

I would have love a steel rail one, but we don't have that much here in Canada and even used they are expensive.
I just want to see how this one play and have it for maybe 5-10 years and eventually, i may start to look for a steel rail one...
I may eventually improve it with heaters, a tv like lights installation and redo the rubbers if they dont respond enough...

I see this as a learning process... We all have to start somewhere ...

Thanks !!!

[mikee]

Once a cloth has been stretched you won’t really get much more stretch out of it ,but using an old cloth to practice putting on and off is not a bad idea if your doing it yourself .Marking the bulk end I use a wax type white glass pencil ,I probably sharpen it 3 times to do one marking out due to how soft it is ,this stays on quite well but also brushes out over time ,acetone will remove it about 95% .Im not a fan of tip x pens as they are permanent and one mistake or bad blobbing pen can ruin a cloth .,if you do use a tip x pen ,use it after the cloth has been stretched as the cloth will not need re stretching again during its life time .

[capella166]

Thanks Mikee, last month, I founded some white pencil at the dollar store. They are use for fabrics for home sewer they say on the package. Water soluble they advertise. At worst I hope it will brushes out over a time long enough so I won't have to do it to often, and it's also for private use so not intensively. I will give it a try for the cost of 0.5 pound....

But I was wondering how I will sharpen it up as it's the same size as a normal lead pen. I figured that I will worn it to get a round shape that will allow to do the line in 2 or 3 pass to maintain the same line width...
You just confirme my uncertainty that I will have to sharpen it a few time to do the baulk line and the D. I will do a test on the hidden cloth part before...

Thanks for the infos on the cloth stretching...

Have a nice day -

[mikee]

A pencil sharpener won’t work on glass pencils , it just breaks up , I use a knife ,I just remarked my table again last night .,I suppose I do it every couple of weeks ,the good thing is though when I had my cloth re stretched in September I have no double d lines and the cloth looks clean .A box of 10 glass marking pencils costs about 4 quid off Amazon .

[Danger Steve]

Mikee are you telling me you don’t like double D’s??

I also use the white crayon/pencil on my cloth, the markings do wear off after all the brushing and need to be re-done every week or so... Don’t sharpen your pencil too a sharp point and then draw on the cloth it will damage the nap! I rub the point on some fine sandpaper first so it’s more of a rounded fat point. Start with light strokes and go over a few times rather than pressing on really hard and trying to mark out in one go! Top Tips

Also don’t forget to use paper spots rather than pencil X’s for spots, this will prevent the spot areas from wearing out prematurely!

[mikee]

Mikee are you telling me you don’t like double D’s??

I also use the white crayon/pencil on my cloth, the markings do wear off after all the brushing and need to be re-done every week or so... Don’t sharpen your pencil too a sharp point and then draw on the cloth it will damage the nap! I rub the point on some fine sandpaper first so it’s more of a rounded fat point. Start with light strokes and go over a few times rather than pressing on really hard and trying to mark out in one go! Top Tips

Also don’t forget to use paper spots rather than pencil X’s for spots, this will prevent the spot areas from wearing out prematurely!

My mistake Steve ,gotta love double D’s

[capella166]

LOL .... Everyone like them for sure

For the spot, I bought some 1/4 inch sticky white spot, they are sticky enough to stay in place and thin enough to forget them...

Thanks for the tips on how to draw the lines and D shape...