Cushion / rail height

[barracuda911]

Hi all.

Can somebody tell me what the correct height is from the bed of the table to the top of the cushion rubber?
I think its 1 5/8 but i may be wrong?

[Geoff Large]

The lower nose of the cushion rubber should when making contact with the ball be just above centre , thats the NOSE not the face or the top edge ( its the botom edge ) if its too far above the ball will get trapped and will not rebound at full pace , if too low the ball will jump .
a full size ball is 2 and 1/16th so the lower nose should be a fraction above the centre line of the ball , the height of the cushion above this is of no real importance apart from restricting a cue in striking a ball close to the cushion .
on some table's cushions are warped and will require clamping down with a very large G clamp before the cushion bolts are tightend .

[100-uper]

on some table's cushions are warped and will require clamping down with a very large G clamp before the cushion bolts are tightened .

Do you really find tables that need this sort of treatment? Let's name an shame! Who are the makers of these tables?

[spookster13]

That explains a lot when i am having a hit over there, the cushions are 1/2 inch to high.

[Geoff Large]

Do you really find tables that need this sort of treatment? Let's name an shame! Who are the makers of these tables?

it may not be down to manufacture although Ive seen a few tables I would like to scrap , but storage conditions when dismantled , if stored with damp and just thrown on the floor with wieght above the cushion it can be formed warped , wood can move with open grain in damp conditions or even placed next to a boiler etc .

I do in my job as a Billiard table fitter come across many tables with gaps under the cushion , that is why I carry an extra large G clamp to try and make the table better , by clamping the gap to the slate and hope that when cushion bolts are tightened , that the cush stays down . Eventualy it will come flat with time .

Also did most know that tables made without centre muntings ( centre slate support ) will drop to form Warped slates and a good 80% of italian slate was allready warped out of the Shipping crate , modern tables should now be made with adjustable bolt up muntings ( centre slate support ) the craft of Hand floating slate's seems to have disapeared , I do know how to do this , but it is very expensive to take away slates to a wharehouse and bring them back again . so nobody bothers anymore . ENBILD in liverpool where the last firm that I know to Hand float slates , but they are now no more . that is where I watched the fitters hand floating slate useing grit from the river Mersey . useing a flat plate with 10 foot poles and an engineers straight edge and a ciggerette paper to put under the straight edge until it grips across the entire width .
a quick test for bowed slates is send a ball slowly down the lenth of the Table on one side , if it rolls away to centre , and on the other side rolls to centre , then the slates are dished . if on the other side it rolls towards cushion then it is simple to level .

[nideKer]

Geoff Large why you said

the lower nose should be a fraction above the centre line of the ball

Why you can`t tell a real dimension from the lower nose to a bad of the table? It is very interesting for me, because i make project of a snooker trainer (bed size 1.4mX 0.85m) and i need this dimension so much! 8)

thx a lot!

[Geoff Large]

Geoff Large why you said


Why you can`t tell a real dimension from the lower nose to a bad of the table? It is very interesting for me, because i make project of a snooker trainer (bed size 1.4mX 0.85m) and i need this dimension so much! 8)

thx a lot!

the dimensions from lower edge of rubber face to bed depends on the size of ball being used , lets say you are using a 2 inch ball then half of this ball is 1 inch add the thickness of cloth that sits under the cushion this makes the ball strike the lower cush nose at just above centre line of the ball , maintaining optimum bounce and no lift or grab of ball .

now whatever ball size you use for youre project just do the half measurement of the ball being used of lower nose plus thickness of cloth for optimum bounce .

the size of rubber being used also has an effect , normal full size rubber is approx 1 inch by 1 inch L shape which sits on a rebated shelf .
I would use nothing less than 5/8th by 5/8th rubber for tables upto 7 foot , sorry for useing Ft and inches , but Metric in my opinion has no use on a billiard table in the uk, in the 1980s full size metric tables where only produced for a few hundred by clare thurstons and padmore and then ditched because nobody within the Billiards and snooker trade association which is the majority of billird table manufacturers at that time voted not to use the metric slates , so very little use for metric as a billiard fitter of my age .

[nideKer]

Ok! I think I understud. I`m a make a snooker trainer for full size balls 2 1/16th. heare attach of the drawing of this situation - it is right?



On my table I would like to train a accurat cuts.

Geoff Large for full size balls you recomend 5/8th by 5/8th rubber too? Or size of the rubber have an influence only on bounce a ball?

Can You tell about technology of binding rubbers to wood-balk? It is done only whis glue, or i can bind rubbers whis glue and nail - to the lower part of L-shaped rubber?

About Ft and inches - it`s normal for me - I can translate it!

thx a lot!

[nideKer]

ooops... sooory for the big picture ...

Forget about: in Russian billiard have some proportion - the edge of te rubber must be on 0,61 above the bed about the ball size. Maybe You know something about it?

[Geoff Large]

looking at youre sketch , it is correct , you can see the lower part of the flat face of the rubber is to make contact at just above half way up the ball .
the rubber should have a support strip under it or a rebate shelf to sit on , this to stop it sagging , use contact adesive apply to face of block and to back of rubber wait 10 to 15 mins until nearly dry and bond togther from one end slowly attaching rubber from righ to left if right handed , in the UK I use Evo stick 528 which is recomended for rubber , do not use nails or staples to attach rubber to block , also when you have finished glueing the rubber , put 2 inch surgical tape on the top of the rubber and block , this will help keep rubber in place and also stop it coming opff if people sit on the cushions .

[nideKer]

Geoff Large thx for the ansver!
I must start "bond togther from one end..." - from curved end of the wood-bar or from straight place? How to fix rubber in curved end during and after bonding - only owing to glue, or i can use temporary surgical tape?

And second question: Rubber must be cuted before agglutination, or after?

Thx a lot!

[Geoff Large]

to form the rubber around the bend , use a very sharp knife , I use a cobblers leather knife , at the point of the very end of the cushion , cutt almost through the rubber bending waste around the end part of the cushion , you will have glued the end of the cushion and the back of the rubber , this will keep the rubber in place until you have cutt the angle of the rubber from a preformed cardboard template , place template ontop of the rubber , you can if required take the tension from the rubber trying to bend back , by cutting into rubber up to template like teeth cutts , this will almost certainly stop the rubber from coming off the angle of the bend . You then have to cutt the rubber to the template .

It is important that you dip the knife in water when cutting rubber or it will grip the rubber and force it off the block , water is a lubricant and the knife on regular intervals must be kept wet for ease of cutting , also the knife to be kept sharp by emmery paper or chisel stone block , it is important that no oil is on the stone .

I would suggest trying to cutt the rubber from some spare before you attempt cutting the good rubber that is on the block .

for a novice I would suggest useing a small belt sander to slowly form the angle and also the undercutt of the angle , a half round rasp is also usefull for the undercutt , when cutting the undercutt try and keep the thickness of the flat nose all the way around the angle , years ago they cutt a very sharp point to the angle , but modern tables try and keep a flat nose all the way around .

Rubber is cutt after glueing .

I am sorry to say that Rerubbering is one of the most skillfull of jobs that has to be learnt by a billiards fitter , and it takes many years of mistakes and teaching to get it right , So I'm afraid you have a difficult job on youre hands if you are a novice .

Try and get some second hand rubber and cloth for practice

When I was an aprentice fitter , I used to take home spare 3/4 sized cushions from the workshop and practice with old removed rubber and also second hand cloth , this way mistakes do not matter , a few years ago I had an aprentice working with me , but he showed no intrest in trying to work things out in his own time , when he left work all he wanted to do was play on his game boy or ride his miniture motorbike on a disused air field .
It takes years of dedication to become fully qualified in all aspects of table maintenence , i.e. Rerubber / Re blocking / making slips / recovering cushions / setting tables up / Leveling / sewing nets and leathers / and table servicing sewing cuts marking out baulk ,cue tipping etc .
I would say through my experience that it takes 4 years of dedicated learning and a further 4 years to perfect it to youre own personal style .
I am learning all the time even after 35 years of fitting , I come across a table design I have not done before , but apply the method of , If I can take it apart I can put it back together .

Actualy the name to use when rerubbering is called RESTUFFING , and I know of one fitter still useing that phrase (taken from when lint and felt and horse hair was used before rubber was used ) , also there is no such thing as a Snooker table , they are all Billiard tables and you play Snooker on a billiard table . I am a biliiards fitter not a Snooker fitter .

Dictionarys are wrong when they describe a snooker table as it cannot exist , because the Billiard table was the Design and still is , its only pocket openings and cushion capping width and pocket plate style that has changed over the years , its still basicly a full size 12 foot by approx 6 foot , 8 leg table with slate bed and 6 cushions with 6 pockets = a billiard table .

[nideKer]

Geoff Large thanks for the detailed description technology of the RESTUFFING. It so interisting for me! I`m not fitter - I`m architect and I like to make the hands... and like snooker so much! :snooker:

Now, before restaffing my billiard-pool table for billiard-snooker table - I`ve training on my snooker treiner... Which photos I`ll post soon.

I am not assured that have understood about:

for a novice I would suggest useing a small belt sander to slowly form the angle and also the undercutt of the angle , a half round rasp is also usefull for the undercutt , when cutting the undercutt try and keep the thickness of the flat nose all the way around the angle , years ago they cutt a very sharp point to the angle , but modern tables try and keep a flat nose all the way around.

It to concern to a cushion`s wood-rail or to rubber?

[Geoff Large]

you can use a small banded belt sander to form the curved corner or middle angle that the block that the rubber sits on and also the rubber when it is attached to the block , it is not the professional fitters way of doing it , but for someone who is not trained then there is less of a risk of taking too much rubber off .
Cutting with the leather knife lubricated with water and you have the risk of cutting too much rubber off . you have to have a steady hand , and you must also practice a few times to feel confident to go ahead and cutt the rubber . always make a template up , a corner template and a middle template , put template on top of the rubber and draw a line around it , try and cutt the rubber as close to the line but not within it , then sand with rough sand paper progressing to smoother paper , the undercutt is simular use a rasp and then finnish off with sand paper .
Take a look at Elston & hopkin web site ( www.elstonandhopkin.co.uk ) and look at the picture where it says rerubber , that is my hand with the rasp on the picture . this will give you a good idea how to form the angle .

[nideKer]

Geoff thanks for the so interesting information for me! It you`ll not find in the Internet!

Geoff I neen too also information about construction of the end of the rail (near pokcet) - where rubber is attached to the block.

something like this:




or this:




But I interesting exactly a structure of the rail whis steel cushion block.

Can you help me whis some information (or better some photos... )?

Thx a lot! :snooker: