Fix a small devot under the black spot?

[poolqjunkie]

I am wondering if there is anyway to fix a small devot under the black spot without changing the cloth.

Also, if the cloth has a small hole, can it be fixed with say super glue?

Thank you.

[Geoff Large]

(devot or divot) under black spot can be caused by two things ,

1st, compacted chalk dust , caused by continued banging of ball onto spot , this will vibrate dust towards banging point and a form a small mountain of dust under the spot , the more you bang the bigger the mountain of compacted chalk dust , (if the cloth has too much chalk dust it prob is ready for a recover) , remedy stretch or recover clean slates ,

2nd , no spot on the cloth for protection will result with constant respotting of the black a small ( Devot or Divot ) or dish mark in cloth , remedy Recover .
At no point should superglue be put on the cloth , small cue cuts or stabs have to be sewn up .

[poolqjunkie]

Thank you for the correction on my spelling.
If the cloth is not to be redone or resketched, is there no way to fix the divot?
By re-sketched, I assume you mean to take the cushion off and then pull the cloth tight again, right? There is also a small tear at the black spot so perhpas pulling would make the tear worst?
Is there any cheaper and easier fix method?
How do you sewn a tear up?
Thank you.

[Geoff Large]

Thank you for the correction on my spelling.
If the cloth is not to be redone or resketched, is there no way to fix the divot?
By re-sketched, I assume you mean to take the cushion off and then pull the cloth tight again, right? There is also a small tear at the black spot so perhpas pulling would make the tear worst?
Is there any cheaper and easier fix method?
How do you sewn a tear up?
Thank you.

the most common fault that I see on billiard tables is the wearing away at the black spot when the rest of the table has good nap still left , and therfore further life , BUT , I am afaraid if the wear is that bad around the black spot then a Recover is the only option .

sewing is done in two ways , removing the bed cloth and sewing from under the cutt , or useing a Hook needle ( curved needle ) sew from the top useing a lock thread method of looping under the last loop on each stitch .
coming into the cutt from 1 inch away and going away from the cutt also 1 inch away .

Tap the stich down and iron in .

You can also strenthen the thread by passing it through candle wax .

[Son of Cliff]

[QUOTE=poolqjunkie;375620]Thank you for the correction on my spelling.
If the cloth is not to be redone or resketched, is there no way to fix the divot?
By re-sketched, I assume you mean to take the cushion off and then pull the cloth tight again, right? There is also a small tear at the black spot so perhpas pulling would make the tear worst?
Is there any cheaper and easier fix method?
How do you sewn a tear up?
Thank you.

I used to help recover tables many moons ago, and the one trick we used of helping move the lump of dust that has settled around the black spot, was to get a small sewing needle and put it through the cloth, say about 1cm from the spot put it parallel with the slate, and jiggle the needle around so to break up the dust spot. Do this in several positions around the spot, make sure to use the thinnest needle as possible so not to put a hole in the cloth.

[Mike P]

Geoff,
I have never had an issue with excessive chalk build up under the color spots, just the opposite.
I do not use glue on spots for marking my colors. Instead they are marked with a pen. In time my color areas are dished a bit, the black being the worst. I always thought that the dishing was caused by the cue ball impacting the color ball. Are you saying that by using the glue on markings instead, this will prevent the dishing effect? Is there anything that can be done for this dishing?

Son Of Cliff, good pointer for those with the problem. With the needle inserted, possibly a vacuum could be used to extract some of the chalk.

Mike

[Geoff Large]

Geoff,
I have never had an issue with excessive chalk build up under the color spots, just the opposite.
I do not use glue on spots for marking my colors. Instead they are marked with a pen. In time my color areas are dished a bit, the black being the worst. I always thought that the dishing was caused by the cue ball impacting the color ball. Are you saying that by using the glue on markings instead, this will prevent the dishing effect? Is there anything that can be done for this dishing?

Son Of Cliff, good pointer for those with the problem. With the needle inserted, possibly a vacuum could be used to extract some of the chalk.

Mike

Mike , I have not suggested at anytime to use Glue on the cloth if you read back I have discouraged it being used to glue a tear at no time did I suggest useing it in place of spots , the reason you are getting dished spots , is because lack of a SPOT on top of the cloth , just marking out like on the TV tables is not good for a cloth that has to last in excess of 12 or 24 months or even longer , the tables in TV tounrnments are recovered every three days , so no spots are used .
Many people with their own tables see that the profesionals have no spots on the table and follow suit ( BIG MISTAKE) it will only wear through without a spot to protect the cloth , a pen mark just will offer no protection from wear either by constant palcing on a pen mark , or by force through the ball when struck .

Secondly , yes I have known that sticking a needle through the spot area can break the lump of compacted chalk dust down , but there will still be lumps around the spot , the only way of thorough cleaning is to take the cloth off .

Useing a vacumm cleaner on the bed of a 5 piece Billiard sltae is a NO NO , because plaster of paris is used as a slate joint sealer and filler on many tables , unless you are 100% sure that youre slate joints are perfect DO NOT VACUMM , I have lost count on the number of tables I have visited because the table cleaner with good intentions has decided to vacumm the whole bed including going over the slate joints , thus making the filler come out of the joint and being deposited as al ump under the cloth , you then have two problems , a large divot where the filler has come out and a large lump where the filler is now residing on top of the slate .

with modern fillers it is less of a problem , but many use plaster of paris , so I say if the joints are filled with any type of filler do not vacumm , if the slates are perfect with no filler in at all then yes by all means vacumm , but its youre risk . we therfore recomend not to use a vacumm cleaner .

Small spots are available through many office supply shops , although black is hard to come by , Wilkinsons in the UK ( wilko) do a package of self adesive small spots in differant colours includeing green for a few pence ,these are better than the USA large spots that you have to lick to put on , use the iron to bed new spots in , if you are having a tournament at home or in youre club , take the spots off just for that Tournament , then put spots on for normal use . Remember to iron them in again or they will just lift and peal off .

If any player wishes to mimick a profesional player by having no spots on the table to protect the cloth from consistant placeing and impact , then be prepared to pay for a recover more often when dishing has worn almost through the spot , Because there will be plenty of life in the rest of the cloth but , the cloth is now scrap because of a hole or large dish or divot . at the end of the day a Fitter can only recomend ways to make a cloth last , if the player knows better then I say let them prove it . I have not met one yet who can disprove taking the spots off a table will shorten the cloth life . Ok I take on board that spots can make a ball jump or deviate as it rolls over it , but this is also true of a divot formed , making the contact ball slightley lower than centre of the strike ball . with modern small office supply spots I think is the way to go , most Billiard spots supplied by the trade are too thick for the job , so please by all means try the office spots from say wilko's .

the best way to seat a ball on a spot is to slightly click it from above and across with the cue ball , a slight glance is all that is needed nothing more , do not be heavy handed and bang a ball on the spot .

[Mike P]

Geoff,

Sorry for the misunderstanding in my post. By glue on spots, I was referring to the lick or self adhesive ones. Live and learn, I will be putting the type of spot you are talking of, next time I recover the table. On my table when shooting hard, the black does get airborne due to coming out of the dished area. Thanks for the advice, I am sure I will have some questions before that next recovering. So as not to highjack this thread I posted a question about my side pockets, please help.

Mike

[ToBad4U]

Useing a vacumm cleaner on the bed of a 5 piece Billiard sltae is a NO NO , because plaster of paris is used as a slate joint sealer and filler on many tables , unless you are 100% sure that youre slate joints are perfect DO NOT VACUMM , I have lost count on the number of tables I have visited because the table cleaner with good intentions has decided to vacumm the whole bed including going over the slate joints , thus making the filler come out of the joint and being deposited as al ump under the cloth , you then have two problems , a large divot where the filler has come out and a large lump where the filler is now residing on top of the slate .

Isn't wax commonly used as a slate joint sealer or is that just done in Canada?

[Geoff Large]

Isn't wax commonly used as a slate joint sealer or is that just done in Canada?

wax is sometimes used as a joint filler , but only in an emergancy in my work , I.E. Im stuck in the country with no filler on the van , I can light a candle and fill in a small divot in the joint and scrape with a stanley blade .

Traditionaly Plaster of Paris is the most common filler used , but large breaks or damage then car body filler is used .

If Car body filler was around in the mid 1850s then I am sure the fitters would have used this , just as they went over to bonzaline balls in place of Ivory by the turn of the century .then to crystalate .

A soft sand Car body filler is prob the best material to use these days .

Wax can expand in warm tempretures , so I would not use it if I had other fillers on my van . and yes you are correct in the USA and Canada Wax is the prefered method of filling joints . many american pool company's have in their instructions to use wax as the sealer of the joint , in the UK we disagree on this . and are trained as an aprentice in my case many years ago now to use plaster of paris or Car body filler .

when Ironing a table with a very warm Iron , the wax can sink in the joint , I think the reason for american Pool company's useing wax is down to the man made fabric of speed Pool cloth not requiring a iron .

[ToBad4U]

wax is sometimes used as a joint filler , but only in an emergancy in my work , I.E. Im stuck in the country with no filler on the van , I can light a candle and fill in a small divot in the joint and scrape with a stanley blade .

Traditionaly Plaster of Paris is the most common filler used , but large breaks or damage then car body filler is used .

If Car body filler was around in the mid 1850s then I am sure the fitters would have used this , just as they went over to bonzaline balls in place of Ivory by the turn of the century .then to crystalate .

A soft sand Car body filler is prob the best material to use these days .

Wax can expand in warm tempretures , so I would not use it if I had other fillers on my van . and yes you are correct in the USA and Canada Wax is the prefered method of filling joints . many american pool company's have in their instructions to use wax as the sealer of the joint , in the UK we disagree on this . and are trained as an aprentice in my case many years ago now to use plaster of paris or Car body filler .

when Ironing a table with a very warm Iron , the wax can sink in the joint , I think the reason for american Pool company's useing wax is down to the man made fabric of speed Pool cloth not requiring a iron .

Thanks Geoff for your response, I always enjoy reading your posts because you provide plenty of detail and they are well articulated.

This topic will be discussed with my table mechanic when I'm ready to pull the trigger on a 5 x 10 snooker table, hopefully in the near future. My thoughts are to to use either the Hainsworth Smart or Hainsworth Match cloth, but I'm presently leaning towards the Match cloth. My thinking here is that my home table would not see the table traffic that a club table would see, durability becomes less of an issue, and I would benefit from a faster table at a slightly higher cost. I would appreciate your thoughts on these two cloths or any other cloth for that matter. Thanks in advance.

[Geoff Large]

hi Bill , up until only last year I would have said use Stracahn 6811 gold tournament , but due to faults that we keep getting in this cloth , we have changed to Hainsworth Smart , Feedback from players who where used to me putting the Strachan cloth on has been overwelming in favoir of the Hainsworth cloth , and when I have used the Hainsworth match cloth on the match tables in my local club the players where all in favoir of useing it from now on . it is so much easier to fit than Strachan no10 which is used on the TV tables . number 10 is like stretching Cardboard . if you look on the TV you will see where the fitter has put water around the Centre pockets so as to shrink any loose or wrinkles out with an iron ( cloth is 100% wool so heat and water will shrink it ), it will show as a water mark around the pocket and is easy to see . ( the fitters will not like me for revealing this ) but even I have to use this method sometimes on strachan number 10 cloth ( its not the fitters fault ) but never on Hainsworth it is so easy to work with , and plays very well .

On the local club match tables last year Ronnie 0'sulivan & Jimmy white , and next week Tony drago will have played on these Hainsworth Match cloths . Ronnie and jimmy had no problems racking high acurate shots with pace to the Centre pockets , the speed of the table was very good and the heaters under the slate where not on .

A tip I give to people who want heated slates is to just put oil filled electric radiators under the table , pre heat the table 2 hours before use then unplug the heaters , the oil will stay hot for a long time after unplugging and the heat is trapped under the Frame . there is no need for specialist heaters attached to the Frame , Heat is Heat it rises and therfore any heater will do as long as it is safe to do so , try not to use convecter heating or electric bar fires though . as these concentrate the heat directly above in one hot spot .

So yes Hainsworth Match is a good choice . and it is slightly cheaper than number10 .

[poolqjunkie]

Thank you so much. I have learned so much.

By the way, if the owner does not want to pay for a recover or even a re-pull of cloth. Is there any quick way to fix the divot until the table cloth is changed?

[Geoff Large]

[QUOTE=poolqjunkie;376637]Thank you so much. I have learned so much.

By the way, if the owner does not want to pay for a recover or even a re-pull of cloth. Is there any quick way to fix the divot until the table cloth is changed?[/QUOTE

Divots at the colour spots caused by placeing of ball on one spot on a regular basis is a serious wear and cannot be filled in with any thing , I've seen owners try liquid paper to try filling in ,then once level with top of napped cloth put a spot on it , only for the whole spot to just come off with all the liquid paper attached .

Its like track marks in the corner pockets , once worn in , a stretch will move them slightly , but if too deap the cloth has reached the end of its life .

I often stretch cloths that have had no black spot attached , the pencil spot will move back around 1/2 an inch , place the new spot at 12 and 3/4 inch from nose of cushion and the ball when placed on the new spot just rolls back into old spot divot .

It just shows by not having spots on a table you will have a perfectly good cloth but at the spots worn almost through to the slate .

you could try an extra large spot , but it would not look right .