Riley Aristocrat

[senga147]

Sensible talk

Well done Geoff for putting the costs of shipping a table into perspective.

[RGCirencester]

Geoff, Would it be possible or cheaper to for instance ship the table on a lorry as you say and then fly someone such as yourself out? How much equipment is required to properly set up a table?
Personally i would prefer to leave it in the professionals hands, but i was just wondering.
How much does setting up a table in the UK typically cost btw?

[Geoff Large]

Geoff, Would it be possible or cheaper to for instance ship the table on a lorry as you say and then fly someone such as yourself out? How much equipment is required to properly set up a table?
Personally i would prefer to leave it in the professionals hands, but i was just wondering.
How much does setting up a table in the UK typically cost btw?

Yes there are lower cost options available , if you can find a shipping out of the Uk by chance a shared load with other goods then always take that route , but asking a Fitter to be apart from his tools even in flight is risky , I know of one fitter who arrived in Teneriffe but his tools where still at East midlands airport , I did one portugal job where my tools went out with the table on the van with just a Driver , I flew over at 9am monday flew out of Portugal 9am tuesday having fitted the table , but had to wait for my tools to get back to the UK on Friday , I had to take a three day holiday when I got back because my tools where out the country . wished I had stayed in portugal for the three days but it was not arranged for me to do that .

I could set a table up if for instance a customer abroad could locate such things as , car jack , plaster of paris or car body filler , a small hammer , a brace and bit or brace and sockets , Tacks etc , I could take few specialist tools for instance I could never level a table without my engineers level , or the required marking out gear , the owner should also have an iron , and a piano trolly is not going to go on a airplane either so some strong labour to move the slates when I got there , a 6 foot straight edge for checking the frame square is also a must have . yes a few basic tools and you could set the table up , but you have not the back up of the full tool kit should a problem arise . And no fitter like's to work to those conditions it is so unprofesional

The cost of dropping a table and setting up in the uk is around £550 plus vat and milage at 40p a mile . unless the table is from lands end to john ogroats then overnight stays will have to be equated into the costing .

Why so many people think that plumbers and electricians and Car machanics are the only skilled people to get a decent wage is beyond me , I had to serve at least 8 years before I got to the good wage structure . and I know I've earnt that right , my back and knees are about had it , but I still struggle on because I like what I do . and who on less than £500 a week can now afford a morgage ? When I first started work from leaving school my wage was £4-10/- when I got into the army my wage was £21 , when I got into table fitting my wage was £45 , now I am on around £24,000 per annum plus overtime and perks like milage for my own van , 5 extra days holiday for being with the firm for 30 years .

some trades are a licence to print money but if you compere what it costs to recover a Billiard table to say fitting a tow bar you will see how good value for money we are as a skilled trade , for instance I got a quote for a new tow bar to be fitted to my wife's car the cost was over £700 at the Citroen dealer yet I bought the Detachable tow bar for £200 fitted it myself and then paid Citroen £101 for the specified electrics that operate the ESP to TSP , and £160 labour to fit , I saved over £239 for just tightening 12 bolts up , thats what I call a rip off .

But if you look at the breakdown of my Croatia run you will see it is not overchargeing , but actualy works out with not much profiit in it , we look upon these trips abroad as way of bringing attention to the fact we will fit any table anywhere in the world even if it means bringing in a subcontractor to fit if its not viable to send a fitter from the UK ., but do not aim to be out of pocket doing it .

We would if possible hire subcontractors from the country that the table is destined for this would save a huge chunk from the fitters costs , but we have a reputation to keep and could only recomend a subcontractor if he was a fully time served Billiards fitter and reliable .

[Geoff Large]

By the way less than 24 hours to go on the auction of the Riley steel block Aristocrat still at £700 , BUT 325 people have veiwed it so expect it to suddenley up in price towards the end .
the slates will not be 2.5 inch he has counted the lining that the tacks are in for securing the cloth to , they will be 1 and 7/8ths to 2 inch .

[RGCirencester]

Thanks for all the information Geoff, seems like a raw deal that such a skilled trade with such a wealth of experience would yield such a comparatively low wage considering other professions.

[Geoff Large]

Thanks for all the information Geoff, seems like a raw deal that such a skilled trade with such a wealth of experience would yield such a comparatively low wage considering other professions.

Its a sad fact that the Billiard Fitting trade is dying out as a proffesion the whole buisness has been taken over by the slot machine people via the pool table trade , where profit margins must exceed good service , so many things are made on the cheep these days , more and more products are coming from China , while there are skilled fitters around the proffesionals will get looked after , but when these fitters retire or die off who will have the Fully trained trade at their hands , thats when the quality of table's will just go down hill .
Fitters are coming out of the trade and into other trades , Riley service's just disapeared only last year , they where the last core of original Riley fitters still doing the work , we picked up quite a few of their contracts when customers could not get in touch .

How many firms from the Book a tade history by j r Mitchell are still going .
the book was only printed in 1980 , but you will be shocked at the surviving firm,s still going from those listed in there . E J Riley is not one of them , they went bust years ago , but someone got the name registerd in bristol and the name is still used , but it is not the original firm .

[lkomarci]

I think that the price of 3000 pounds is way off. I've heard it was about 550 pounds to Slovakia which is relatively close to Croatia. (Nope CRO isn't in the EU yet btw). But I dunno yet I'm still waiting for a feedback with a price.

[moglet]

I think Geoff Large's price was a fitted and working one, no doubt there will be a way to ship the table but it will have to be skillfully packed and palletised, particularly the slates, no mean feat in itself if you want to take delivery at some depot or dock and not receive some matchwood and quarry waste.

[RGCirencester]

It may work out to less than 3000 is you can find a qualified fitter in your own country, and arrange shipment of the table, which would have to go by boat and van. But i could personally see the price reachign this ammount quite easily.

[Geoff Large]

I think that the price of 3000 pounds is way off. I've heard it was about 550 pounds to Slovakia which is relatively close to Croatia. (Nope CRO isn't in the EU yet btw). But I dunno yet I'm still waiting for a feedback with a price.

The quote was for picking the table up in Guildford the dismantle carefully packing and wrapping , transport to Docks , the cost of the Ferry (500 alone ) the costs of Fuel food and hotels , it would take 6 days to complete this task

I can see how £550 would pay for the dismantle and paletiseing of the Table and delivery to or collection from base of the table to the docks or courier who is transporting it . not many couriers or removal men touch the dismantle of a Full sized Table , they always get a profesional in to do that .

I do stick by my estimation of two skilled fitters delivering the table dismantle in Guildford UK to the last screw being put in Craotia and arriving back in the UK .

If you have heard it is £550 , could you please let us know who it is quoting such a price as I may get our firm to use them Delivering table's in Europe , and if assembling and dismantling check out to be fully qualified time served Billiard fitters .

I estimate fuel alone to be around the £200 to £250 at 35 to the gallon . no one can deliver without hotel stop overs wether they are just delivery men or fitters . the only way you can get a low delivery price is to put the table on a lorry which is allready taking other goods to Croatia , if you can find a firm operating this service then yes go ahead it will save you some money , but youre table willstill need to be dismantled in the Uk and set up in croatia .

[Geoff Large]

the Table sold for £1000 which is a bargain as it had a £200 iron as part of the equipment .
who ever bought it should be well pleased with themselves .
If in the UK the average price for dismantle and errect is £550 + vat plus milage costs .

[checkSide]

I think our friend here is dreaming if he thinks he can get a table to Croatia for 500 quid.

I doubt he could get it out of Britain for than much.

[senga147]

Amongst others, I have sent a table to Canada for £ 600 and Italy for £ 550. If you send it part load, you will save a fortune. However you still have the import duties and local to taxes. And you have to find a competent fitter to install the table at the other side.

[Geoff Large]

As all ready advised container Shared shipping is the lowest cost option for shipping tables , But the cost of dismantle and pallating , and the cost of picking up from wahrehouse where container is unloaded to house and set up would still put the final price well towards the £2000 price tag and thats without a Recover useing the same cloth ,

for a complete dismantle transport and fitting package
I have looked at a more direct route just to the border town or city of Zagreb and it is 2402.6 miles round trip and would cost £350 in diesal at 35 to the gallon , this from Gainsborough in lincolnshire ( our base ) to Zagreb direct through channel tunnel , this would be slightly cheaper than the Hull via rotterdam route , but a day must be allowed in the Uk to pick the table up enroute via Guildford where this table is , and prob an overnight stay this side of the channel or the french side of the channel depending on crossing times .
You are only allowed 11 hours Driving time (BY LAW) and its nearly 20 hours Direct driving (not counting any delays that may occur ) this is very tireing for the driver and fitter , as stated our prefered route to the continent is via Hull to rotterdam this way you get an overnight cabin which is refreshing when you have a long drive ahead of you .

[lkomarci]

Guildford is not part of the story any more though. I am viewing some other options, one that senga has offered especially.
Geoff, it's just transport. I dont require a fitter so that's not an issue.

As all ready advised container Shared shipping is the lowest cost option for shipping tables , But the cost of dismantle and pallating , and the cost of picking up from wahrehouse where container is unloaded to house and set up would still put the final price well towards the £2000 price tag and thats without a Recover useing the same cloth ,

for a complete dismantle transport and fitting package
I have looked at a more direct route just to the border town or city of Zagreb and it is 2402.6 miles round trip , this from Gainsborough in lincolnshire ( our base ) to Zagreb direct through channel tunnel , this would be slightly cheaper than the Hull via rotterdam route , but a day must be allowed in the Uk to pick the table up enroute via Guildford where this table is , and prob an overnight stay this side of the channel or the french side of the channel depending on crossing times .
You are only allowed 11 hours Driving time (BY LAW) and its nearly 20 hours Direct driving (not counting any delays that may occur ) this is very tireing for the driver and fitter , as stated our prefered route to the continent is via Hull to rotterdam this way you get an overnight cabin which is refreshing when you have a long drive ahead of you .