Table pocket help

[abhi147]

Hi guys,

I need some help regarding my table

The center pockets of the table just seem a bit too big
When you see the pockets in standing position they seem normal or when you are standing with your head right above the center pocket they seem small in size compared to tables that i have rpeviously played at my different clubs
The moment you get down to take a shot in the center pocket it seems the pocket is just too big

My table fitter is unable to understand the problem though he does agree that the pocket seem bigger when down on shot

I have attached pictures with some markings
Let me know if I will need to provide any more measurements or something

Any advice would be helpful

Thanks,
Abhishek

[snawaz]

Hi guys,

I have attached pictures with some markings
Let me know if I will need to provide any more measurements or something

Any advice would be helpful

Thanks,
Abhishek

Where are pictures with markings

[abhi147]

Sorry forgot to add images

http://yfrog.com/8629012010028j
http://yfrog.com/e029012010027j
http://yfrog.com/1x29012010021measurej

[abhi147]

Guys
Some help please

Thanks

[Geoff Large]

Guys
Some help please

Thanks

Shocking fitting of leathers , not even cutt , but centre openings look ok to me , you are governed by the width of the pocket plate as to the width of the opening on centre pockets , the cutt of the angle looks correct ,

The ruler across the front of the cushion is correct , the fall in the slate should not protrude forward of the nose of the cushion rubber .

I would get the leathers fitted and cutt properley , maybe get the correct leathers as they do not look right ,

youre photo is not showing the full pocket plate though , maybe you could take more photo's of the pockets from above , and include a shot of the corner plate and pocket from above and at table level into the openinings .

Try putting a tape measure across the pocket openings on the corners at the point of fall in the centre of the pocket , you should be around 3.1/2 inch to 3.5/8ths at this point depending if the rubber has been cutt to tournament openings .

3 and 3/4 inch to 4 inch are too much and these are what I would call as oversised pocket openings .

Geoff

[tcollick]

Hi Abhi...I've just had my pockets redone and did quite a bit of research, and looking at yours they appear around average, but tighter than the average club table. As Geoff says, middle pockets range from around 3.1/2 to 4+ inches. The 3.1/2 being tournament, and 4+ being very generous club tables. Yours appear to be around 3 3/4inch..this is the distance (from each side of the pocket) from where the cushion meets the pocket drop. The 3.5 inch you have marked I don't think is relevant because the drop is not where you've marked the black line, but around 1-2cm further up (towards blue spot).

This is maybe the reason you think the pockets look bigger when down on the shot, because part of the pocket drop is most likely where you are aiming. When looking vertically down on the pocket as with the photos, it deceptively makes the pocket look smaller as it is natural for the eyes to think that the pocket width is the distance (from each side of the pocket) of where the cushion ends, as youve marked in black.

Anyway, to get back to the topic!, it looks like your pocket and cushion curve is about average in terms of width, and tigher than average in terms of tables because most club tables are around 4inches.

[Geoff Large]

It was the corner pockets that I was refering the 3.1/2 to 4 inch , middle pockets are governed by width of pocket plate , some are only 3.1/4 plate others upto 3.5/8ths .

[tcollick]

OK, I guess we are refering to different things then.
In some cases I think the pocket plate dictates the size of the pocket because the slate drop is no wider than the plate, but in most cases the pocket plate could be small but if the slate drop is wide and the cushions are cut generously it makes the drop wider than the plate.
On Abhi's table it looks like this is the case because the slate drop is wider than the plate.

http://www14.plala.or.jp/GSPC/DSCN1622.JPG <<< photo of a Wiraka M1 85mm middle pocket...super tight...on which as you say the plate governs the width of the pocket, because the drop is no wider than the plate. The drop is actually narrower than the plate because the cushions are over hanging slightly. But on Rileys and Abhi's table, the design is completely different from this M1 and so the pocket plate width is irrelevant. Riley Aristocrats have varying pocket widths based on the model if new, and the fitter if refurbished, but the pocket plates are always a standard width.

[abhi147]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the help
I have uploaded a few more pics of the table

http://abhi147.vox.com/library/photos/

I also think its the slate drop which is a bit outside then it should be

Please let me know if you need any more pics
And also if there is a solution to this?

Thanks

[abhi147]

Btw I forgot to mention
Mine is a Burrough and Watts table

And yeah i know the pocket leathers are all messed up
The local fitter had it all messed up while cutting
Anyways Ive ordered for new ones should be here soon

[moglet]

abhi,

What type of pockets did you ask your fitter for?

I notice your cushions are steel block as are tcollick's.

If the cushions are Burroughs and Watts and original with original pocket plates I would expect the fascias (or cappings) to be around 3-5/16" apart yet according to your measurements they appear to be about 3-1/2".

According to your photo of the corner pocket, the "arbitrary' measurements make little sense if the pocket style is a known one.

tcollick,

Where exactly does your photographed pocket measure 85mm? I assume the balls are standard size? By my estimate the narrowest part of the pocket that is covered with cloth is more than 86.5mm

[abhi147]

The cushions are new ones from riley I am not sure of the pocket plates though didnt notice if they were new or old will check it later and update

The pockets seem pretty normal but when you get down on the shot they seem way too big
I think its where the drop from the slate starts is a bit more outwards towards the blue
Is there a way to solve it?

[moglet]

abhi,

Mmm, cappings don't look new from your photo. If my memory is correct new Riley side cushion steels are all six bolt and generally thicker section than older steel sets so presumably they have been re-drilled to fit a five bolt slate set?

Don't be deceived by the arc of the drop, the ball can only ever touch a small part of it as tcollick's photo shows. Where it actually intersects the jaw line is not too important so long as the drop point on the mid-line, as Geoff L. points out, does not encroach on the table area beyond the nose of the cushion.

Snawaz has just had his table set to the pro tournament standard, like me he has been lucky enough to see the pro templates, maybe he would like to.....

[abhi147]

Its the mid-line drop which is a bit outside than usual it seems
Is there a way to check how much the mid drop should be distance wise from the line of the cushion?

How do I find the pro templates?

And what exactly are cappings?

[moglet]

Cappings (or fascias) are the long wooden bits that fit on to the steels to finish off the cushion.

To check the drop you will need a two foot length of 2"x2" wood that has planed and squared edges to put up against the cushion and bed. If the drop point falls very close to the edge of the wood on the bed I wouldn't worry too much.