burroughes&watts table question

[calin]

did somebody can help to find out the age of this table ?
I've purches a Borroughes&watts table like two years ago in USA ( they say it came out Canada ) , it has the serials all over it its a steel block and on the plate it writes " by special appointment to HM the king " I've tried to find out pictures with old B&W tables to find out the model but I've couldn't find none with the same shape of the legs , I'll atache a picture of it and if somebody can tell me more about it I will apreciate . Thanks

[Geoff Large]

Edward V11 was the King after Queen Victoria , assended to throne in 1901 , George V in 1917 it will prob be one of these two kings , Steel blocks was a late 1880 / 1890 invention during Queen Victoria's reign , with it having to HM King on it , I would guess it is Edwadian .
you can purchase a book called Billiards simplified and the last chapter of the Book has a range of Billiard table designs from Burroughs and watts , Early Victorian B&Watts tables the legs are slender with a bulbous part on the upper , with fluting to the lower on the thinner section , a very common design .
Edwardian B&Watts Legs tend to be a little larger in diameter and the bulbous leg is very large with flutes within the largest part of the diameter and not the thinner like on the victorian Table . fluting can be Vertical or slanting on these Edwardian tables .
Early steel blocks had buttons covering the slate cushion bolt holes , later ones have a slide in panel .

A picture would help

Burroughs and watts offices and Match room plus Billiard hall in shoho got flattened by the Luftwaffa during World War 2 , all records and tables got Destroyed ( one survived number 19 table now in Loch Awe hotel only becuase it was taken out before the War ). so the serial number is useless in tracking down any History of the table .

The number 19 table was given to a church in Nottingham , then sold to a private person , then sold again to private person in the cotswolds , then that person bought Loch awe Hotel , we moved the table every time . it has an original plaque in ivory saying Burroghs and watts number 19 table soho square , but now has italian slates on it becuase the very thin 4 section original set where badly warped .

although Youre table has steel blocks , it could be an earlier table and been converted with Steel blocks upto match play , burroughs and watts offered this Service .

Geoff

[calin]

hi geoff , I'm sorry but I'm new on this forum and I don't know how to attache pictures and the only one what I have its that one what I gave u the link above , I'm sorry for the quality of it but it was taken by mom right afther I've put the table togheter . I hope that you can tell me more about it.Thx

[Geoff Large]

Link cannot be accessed .

but with the king plaque you can be sure it is not Victorian .

[calin]

it's been a while Geoff I've upload a picture with this table what I was asking about in my album , Can u take look to it ? and told me what u think . Please

[Geoff Large]

the table is in my opinion a special order , the large readed legs are not what i call a run of the mill design that burroughs and watts produced , very large bulbous legs cost a lot of money to produce they would have been turned from a 10 or 12 inch block rather than the normal 8 inch block . In fact Large turned Readed legs was avery popular design of George Wright tables but this did not stop other firms having a go at the design .

the slide in panels on the cushion threw me a bit as i thought it was not a steel block at first , but on closer inspection of the photo i see they have been a later addition , new slates have 6 bolt holes and with these slide in panel someone has attached 6 fake butons . these would not have been original to the table but blend in well and only a fitter would have pulled you up on it .
I think they are slide in panels ? if not someone has put extra holes in the cushion frieze .

The table would prob be worth arpound £8000 retail in the UK with an insurance value around £10.000 but that was in the glory days of the 1980s /90s , the market has slipped a bit into recession so around 20% could be wiped off that valuation today in the UK , but in the USA these tables must be thin on the ground so expect the valuation be correct .

a photo of the cushion plaque would prob give an estimate of its age .
but going to say after 1917 so George V could have been built circa 1920/30

Geoff

[calin]

07172008.jpg
see if this one helps ...I have it one old phone so I'm sorry about the quality

[Geoff Large]

Yes it is definatley a late plaque so around 1920/30s is the date of the table definatley before the mid 1950s at the latest , there is no scroll work to the frame too a victorian table would have had slimmer legs and scroll work , later Edwardian tables had large diameter legs and Geoge V followed on from that .