dating George Wright tables

[cuerack]

First off let me say I have just joined the forum, & found enough reading for, well for ages.

Next I was not sure if I should ask this question here or in the History section, but here goes.

I understand that it might be possible to date George Wright tables based on the medals & awards they listed on the makers name plates. If this is so could someone please post details of the information as I would be most interested.

Additionally how would members rank G Wright as a maker compared to their contempories such as B & W, Orme, Thurstons, G Edwards, Mawson et al. I realise tables, timbers etc came in a range of qualities & finishes but if somebody would care to express their thoughts once again I would be pleased to hear,

thanks

cuerack

[100-uper]

George Wright's exhibition medals were as follows

1880 – First Prize medal at the Melbourne Exhibition
1885 – Advertising 9 prize medals
1889 – Now 13 prize medals
1890 – 15 prize medals
1893 – 16 prize medals
1894 – 18 prize medals
1895 – 19 prize medals
1900 – 21 prize medals
1905 – 22 prize medals
1906 – 23 prize medals
1908 – 24 prize medals

Hope this helps

[cuerack]

Thanks 100-uper

much appreciated

[Geoff Large]

As I have stated before on this forum , B&Watts , Thurtson , Orme , Stevens , Palmers and many other table manufacturers would be very wary of a Table manufacturer that won so many medals for Excellence of work and design in such a short space of time.
George wright tables have always been made out of very sturdy frame work , the side part of the frame sometimes being 3 inch thick .
Another trait was the large bulbous legs sometimes up to 1 foot thick and ornate design normaly readed legs where the chosen format to manufacture that Wright chose , even down to the more delicate 8 foot tables with thinner legs he still favoured readed design into the legs .
Another thing that I noticed about some of his table designs is the knee panels that covers the leg bolts , he used a leaf pattern in the shape of a face . this design cropping up often on my rounds as a Billiard fitter .
And I think I am correct in that he produced a full size dining table 12 foot by 6 foot , with the raise and fall operated by a large wheel on one end layed horizontal and only 4 legs , I have seen a picture of it but cannot remember where .
he also produced the Life pool score boards and also rotating cue racks , very ornate large scorboards with ivory inserts and mother of pearl , with ball box and also coin box that attached underneath .
I am sure some of his medals where won at the Paris show of 1900 and other held there afterwards .

.................................................. .................................................. .............

One other table manfacturer that is very rare to find and manufactures as ornate as George wright is Hennig brothers .
I have seen some rather nice tables with lions or Gargoyle heads carved on them from this manufacturer , I used to service one such table at Standford Hall CO-OP college near Loughborough , this table was sold to Hamilton billiards and is now available as a reproduction table if you want one making in full size and 9 foot , when Hamiltons bought and renovated it they had it advertised as a Burroughs and watts table , until I informed my old boss John hopkin that the ivory badge had been stolen by American students and therefore the table had lost its Hennig Bros name plate , Hamiltons now have the information that it is a Hennig brothers table , and I actualy bought an ivory Hennig brothers badge off ebay a couple of years ago so I may give Hamiltons a ring to see if they require one for this table .
You may want to visit Hamilton billiards web site , they have a George Wright made for the shah of Persia in 1850 . and has Dragons serpants lions and monkeys just to name a few carved into it . this table would surely be one of the tables that won a gold Medal at such an exhibition , but it is dated in 1850 well before the first medal was won ?

If I was George Wright producing this table then it would surely be in an exhibition first before it was sold , just to promote the firm .

[Geoff Large]

I have just had a look at my original Geroge Wright adverts out of the Ladies field dated 1902 and he won some of the gold Medals at alexandra Palace in 1885

Melbourne in 1880
Adelaide 1881
Cristchurch 1882
Calcutta 1884
London 1884
Antwerp 1885 ( two medals )
medal for inventions also in 1885
London in 1885/86/87/89.
Paris 1900 = 2 gold medals

by special apointment , tables built for the King and HRH prince of wales
King Netherlands
Sultan of Turkey
King of Siam
Sulton of Morocco

the following residences
Buckingham Palace
Windsor Palace
Balmoral
Sandringham

These where of course all the royal housholds and must have been very frustrating for say John Thurston or Burroughs and watts who had tables in these locations before the George Wright tables , the Thurston buckingham palace table was Actualy on ebay last year from a conservative club who where selling it . £10,000 reserve or start price I think ? but it was nothing special , a threepenny bit shape leg and top plate cushions in mahogany .
you can see why they opted for a George wright heavy carved table .

I think you could say that George Wright had cornered the Market for high end table manufacture after Queen Victoria who prefered Thurston and Burroughs and watts in her day .

Oh forgot to add , Elston & hopkin have a nice Lions carved head table by Geroge Wright for a Bargain £7000 Fully restored , now Hamiltons would want double that at least , but hey theres a recession on and tables have to be moved they are not a museum ...lol also a nice burr oak Orme and sons table at £12.500 . check out www.elstonandhopkin.co.uk look for tables upper right , restored tables .

Geoff

[100-uper]

You may want to visit Hamilton billiards web site , they have a George Wright made for the shah of Persia in 1850 . and has Dragons serpants lions and monkeys just to name a few carved into it . this table would surely be one of the tables that won a gold Medal at such an exhibition , but it is dated in 1850 well before the first medal was won ?

If I was George Wright producing this table then it would surely be in an exhibition first before it was sold , just to promote the firm .

I was once contacted by someone who claimed to have a George Wright table which was entered into the Great Exhibition of 1851. That had a very Persian motif and was a superb exhibition quality table. He was apparently told of its provenance by someone from Sir William Bentley Billiards, or it might have been Hamilton's (I can't lay my hands on the correspondence to check right now). I regrettably had to inform him the George Wright, being born in 1843, would not have been old enough to have made such an accomplished piece and it was probably Cox & Yeman c.1911 who had a royal warrant from the Shah of Persia from 1906. I don't know of any other Shah of Persia who was interested in English billiards other than the one from this period.

The table shown to me was not the same as the one that appears on Hamilton's website, but I would be interested to discover why they attribute their particular table to a) George Wright, b) the Shah of Persia, and c) a date of 1850.

[Geoff Large]

Hi Peter , yes I did think something was amiss , as I knew Geroge wright would not be old enough in 1850 to exhibit such craftmanship,hence the ? , but if that table was produced by George Wright at a much later date than 1850 , then such craftsmanship would have been shown as an exhibit , Geroge Wright is my favorite table maker not becuase of the medals he won , but because of the quality of tables I have worked on , they just ooze quality in build and materials , some like B&watts because of the steel block cushion , others Orme & sons because he favoired Oak and burr walnut .
others thurston becuase he apears to be the first to use slate beds .

One that will stick out in my mind though is the Gillows table that I found near london three months ago , and one I will be going back to I hope to do a recover on , at which point I will take some photo's as it is areal old piece circa 1820/30 s I think .

Do you have any information on Hennig Brothers , I was told they did a lot of algimated work with Thurston like they did the wood work on the lower frame and upper cusuion and thurston did the cushion blocks and rubber work and slates , is there any truth in this ?

[100-uper]

Do you have any information on Hennig Brothers , I was told they did a lot of algimated work with Thurston like they did the wood work on the lower frame and upper cusuion and thurston did the cushion blocks and rubber work and slates , is there any truth in this ?

Ewald and William Hennig, were reputed to be German nationals. I say "reputed" because they weren't particularly keen to advertise their nationality, having applied in 1887 to be included in the voters list for parishioners of Wimbledon and Merton, but were excluded as being "aliens."

They established their business in London in 1862, but my first reference to them in connection with billiards comes in 1880 when they were ivory turners and "the cheapest house in the trade for billiards requisites" They first started supplying new and second-hand tables about 1885.

I must say, I have never really placed them as a top manufacturer; I always had the impression that they were at the budget end of the market, although this is taken from nothing more than their adverts. However, they did supply replacement cushions, especially in the 1890s when their "frostproof" cushion was widely advertised. I suppose you need to watch that plates don't get replaced along with the cushions.

I have no reference to them working with Thurston or any other maker in a formal way, but if they were in the second hand table trade then they could very well have sold some hybrids.

They disappeared just prior to the first World War (c. 1910), when there was a lot of anti-German feeling in London. It is assumed that they returned to Germany and continued business there, but I have no information to confirm this.

[cuerack]

Reading the replies has been relly interesting, I have looked at the websites suggested at examples of G Wright tables. They look very impressive & the quality of the carving looks to be really good. Crisp & clean, well proportioned.

My interest in older tables has only recently come about but I am finding it facinating & frustrating. Interesting because it is & frustrating because I want to read as much about table design & manufacture & the company history of makers too that I can find. I know there is much info in old adverts etc but are there any books that have been published that have collected any of these together? Are there any histories of makers that have been published? I have found the Norman Clare website but are there any books anyone could suggest?

Thanks

[Geoff Large]

A trade history by J R Mitchell is one to look out for .

[cuerack]

Geoff Large,
Many thanks for your recommendation I will definately keep an eye out for a copy of it.

Must also say that I am interested in the design & development of the billiard (snooker)diners that the various makers produced. The various mechanisms they came up with for raising & lowering the table top are so diverse. The later Riley type of bracket seems to have survived the test of time but others like the large transverse timber that rotates up into place & then is lowered by the pull of a lever on the underside have disappeared as have the wind up types.(I think one modern maker still uses this on some tables though) Fancy GW making a 12x6 rise & fall table. The Victorians seemed to have a can do attitude rather than sitting around discussing why something could not be done they rolled up there sleeves & had a go. I suppose thats why just about each maker came up with their own rise & fall mechanisms in the first place.

[Geoff Large]

George Wright also made a wind up type , that you removed the Right end knee panel Bauk end , inserted a winding tool , and inside the frame work where long bars connected to Bronze gearing within each leg , when the handle was turned all 4 gears in each leg turned at the same time , the lower part of the leg being telescopic .
I came acrooss one of these in 9 foot or 10 foot Form ? about 10 years ago near Mansfield
you could not see any of the gearing or conecting bars as they where fully enclosed within the wood frame when the slate was on


I used to have a swivel top diner 6 x 3 sold by Gamages of london but prob made by Geroge wright or Geroge edwards for Gamages , these tend to fetch good money and hold their value .

Riley diners where made in their thousands from 5 foot to 9 foot , these used to be expensive to buy a few years ago , but they are now going for around £1.500 to £2.500 in their 6 ft to 7 ft form , 9 ft tables are around the £5000 price and 8ft not far behind .
Fully renovated depending on leg design , from square leg and turned leg fluted , to cabriole legs, Barley twist , Ball and claw foot design and if they are mahogany or the more sought after Oak for modern homes .
they also produced a serpantine top normaly with cabrole or with ball and claw feet .these sell for above £2.500 as they are rare to find .

some rise and fall designs where nothing more than two pieces of wood with a spring to flip it into place , not a very clever design at all .
The reason riley design has survived is because it gives the person a device to level the table by a simple turn of the nurled screw just between slate and frame .

Some flip over have no leveling at all apart from packing under the leg , you also have to watch out for trapped fingers when operating the flip over type , one good thing about the flip over , their are no Boards on top to store when you use it as a Billiards table .

I have a riley Maogany 6 x 3 Cabriole leg diner at this moment in the garage waiting for renovation when I get the time .

I think the victorians and edwardians had this competivness about themselves where by they must bring out their own version of Billiard table design , not in just how dining tables converted , but in Pocket design , the steel block cushion , The Thurston Adamant cushion bought out to compete with steel blocks , cox and yeman horse shoe pocket plates , the last invention that modern table makers made was by Enbild of liverpool , where by they slotted the frame bolts and inserted a srewthread bolt and plate within the underside of the leg for leveling , it did not take off though the tables used to rock and where very unstable , a bit like 1960s riley starline which was also a useless exersize , only thurstons Clare Padmores 1970s Jubilee table worked and is still available to buy new to this day .

I have been working in Essex recently and at the B&B I was sat at a 8 foot Buroughs and watts diner for my Breakfast , a very nice table that has been in the Farmhouse since new .

[100-uper]

Must also say that I am interested in the design & development of the billiard (snooker)diners that the various makers produced. The various mechanisms they came up with for raising & lowering the table top are so diverse. The later Riley type of bracket seems to have survived the test of time but others like the large transverse timber that rotates up into place & then is lowered by the pull of a lever on the underside have disappeared as have the wind up types.(I think one modern maker still uses this on some tables though) Fancy GW making a 12x6 rise & fall table. The Victorians seemed to have a can do attitude rather than sitting around discussing why something could not be done they rolled up there sleeves & had a go. I suppose thats why just about each maker came up with their own rise & fall mechanisms in the first place.

There follows a couple of patent description for George Wright & Co relating to billiard/diners from 1902 and 1904 respectively:

Patent No.12,961. F. R. Wright, of Westminster, for "Tables (furniture)." Relates to convertible dining and billiard tables. The reversible top is panelled at one side to form the dining table, and is formed as a billiard table top on the other; it rests on a frame, the ends of which are preferably hinged, so as to be capable of folding. The frame is held open by a bolt. The top edges of the frame are covered with baize, etc.

Patents Sealed. 2,773. F. R. Wright, of Westminster Bridge Road, London, for Tables. Relates to convertible dining and billiard tables. The supports of the top telescope into the legs. The top is raised or lowered by turning screws by handles. Each screw bears in a socket on a cross-bar, joining the supports and engages a fixed nut. The legs are slotted to allow the cross-piece to move.

It used to be posible to obtain copies of historic patents by application to the Patent Office, not sure whether they still do this.

I would imagine that there was not a great demand for 12 ft convertible dining tables, although Wright & Co claim to have been the first ever maker, producing their first around 1889. The other company I know made them was E. (Eu Dauphine) Calvert who had a business in London from about 1904 through to the 1920s. Probably a few other companies made them occasionally as well, but I've not come across any specific reference.

[cuerack]

just to say your replies are much appreciated by a budding enthusiast of older tables,

thanks again

[cuerack]

Just ocurred to me to ask about the following.

Am I right in thinking that concealed poccet plates came into being around 1890-1900? If not when did they come in? Was it a patented idea to prevent other makers copying for a while?

If so who was the first to offer them & what advantage are they over the exposed type of pocket plates. Is it just an aesthetic thing or is there a more technical reason why they were adopted?
If I was in the market for an older table what would you suggest as the factors between choosing top plates or concealed plates. I am no expert player but our club has a couple of old tables & a couple of newer ones too & from a playing point of view I cant tell the differance.
If they make for a more rigid structure then I can see why they are still used but am I right in thinking some of the cheaper tables of the 40's -70's used the old top plates? Was this because they were lighter construction & it was less of a factor or was it that they were easier & hence cheaper to fit?

Sorry to ask so much but its only because I don't know much