dating George Wright tables

[Lize]

Thank-you for the info.

[Geoff Large]

Lize , Looking at the frame in youre photo's ,there is something that is just not correct , now the leg design is called Tulip design , being a flower upside down , but what makes me think this frame is not belonging to a George wright table is those internal slip in knee panels in the legs , a george wright would have had external dowled / screw key hole or brass keyholed fixed knee panels , those knee panels are like Buroughs and watts and almost certainley are B&watts .

What I think you have here is an hybrid where two late 1890s Period tables have been used to make one up . not unusual it happens all the time , it takes a trained eye to spot it though .
it just maybe a person liked the tulip leg but wanted a George wright table , or two or more tables in a club where taken down stored as one lot and then when assembled the wrong frames got mixed up onto each table .
the tables where then sold off and you have the resulting hybrid table of B&watts frame with Geroge wright cushions and slates .
At the auction where there more than one table for sale and where these tables allready dismantled ?

George wrights designs where usualy readed or fluted leg design , although most Billiard houses did make a Tulip leg design so I am not saying George wright never made them as i know they did but rare to find one , the tulip design of Geroge wright has some other distinguising design in it like a four sided eyelet in the upper turning , the only George wright tulip leg design I have seen had dowled knee panel fixing . skip back one page of this thread no33 , i have put a few pictures of george wright tables on there , look at the leg block design on these tables , all have no insert knee panels like the B&watts tables have , also look at the tulip leg , they have more segments in unlike B&watts tables which have less , also I have not seen many Geroge wright tables without carved scrolls between each leg , smaller tables tend not to have them but full sized ones that have the large chunky legs do not seem to be without them .
99% of George wrights where Readed or fluted leg design .

Geoff

[Lize]

Hi Geoff

During the assembly, I noticed that every single piece of wood, had the same number on it. Could this mean that it is all original?
I'll take more pictures and post them. I also take pictures of the scoreboard.
Thanks

[Geoff Large]

Yes please do Lize , photo of cushion numbers and frame numbers , I still stick to the frame not being Geroge wright with those slide in knee panels , Iv'e never seen a geroge wright with these on , and I suspect other fitters have never too .

Geoff

[Lize]

Hi Geoff

The frame has the same number, 13397, on the bottom of the legs, and eveything supporting the slate. All sections of slate has the number 2679 engraved on it. The blocks joining the legs to the frame seem to have a different number on them, starting 25, but I'll have to dismantle it to see. I took down the cushion rail (where the George Wright info is) and that too has a different number 4093.
The cushion rails have names stamped on the inside. A. Pethers & J.G. Fairweather. Handwritten on the inside of one of the rails
"New cushion fitted by A. Andrews 30/5 47 for Union Billiards Requisites Joh-Burg" (Johannesburg).
It was the only table at the auction, so no chance of a mix up.

[Geoff Large]

I often seen names stamped in on cushions , this would be original to the Fatory build by the Bench joiner , Hand written names are from Billiard Fitters who have worked on the table when they have either put the table up or recovered it , there is no connecting numbers for the cushions and the frame which is very common anyway as cushion where normaly made in a differant department at the billiard works , but having worked on many Burroughs and watts amd George wright tables , I can only confirm from my experience that the frame is not a George wright and at sometime the original Geroge wright frame has been swopped over with a Burroughs and watts frame .

[philip in china]

Geoff, Not strictly relevant to this thread but how old is the oldest table you have ever seen?

[Geoff Large]

Prob the gillows table ( 1820/30 ) that I worte about on this forum with photo's , infact two gillows tables , one is featured in the book A trade history by J R mitchell and the photo was sent in by my old Boss John hopkin .
although I have worked on a few thurston tables dated around 1830s/40s , and the thomas clulow 1861 10ft that I recentley found in stoke on trent but made in Manchester , which had a plate on the frame with the manufacture date of 1861 .
These early tables would not be good for the modern game though , cushions would be too slender and the pocket plates would have bounce back problems , thin slates which are not true etc .
some having wood beds originaly , later to be replaced by the slate beds .

Geoff

[Geoff Large]

Just to show how some can confuse a table maker and advertise a table as burroughs and watts and I know from the leg design it is a George Wright and sons readed leg .
my guess is the seller has read a rerubber plate that B&watts have put on one end cushion . the table having lost it's original george wright ivory name plate .

the pocket plates are also not bolted , if it was a B&watts they would have a bolt up pocket plate .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-size-...item415bdcda5f

having just emailed the seller , he informed me he was sold the table as a B&watts , I have advised him to join the forum to read this thread to gain a bit more info on his table .

just to show another George wright table with those readed legs here is a photo from one we installed some time ago