Kicks off the baulk colour spots

[franksandellsnooker]

Geoff. Just to completely endorse all your comments regarding both clubs and table maintenance. 100% correct.
Over many years one minor correction to the volcano effect of dust under the spots I have found very effective is to needle the spot by inserting a slightly bent needle through the centre and Lightly spin round to disperse the dust. Obviously this is not as effective as a strip and stretch service but works well in the short term.
In addition have you heard of 'blocking' using Flotex. It removes finger marks like nothing I've ever tried before.

[Geoff Large]

Geoff. Just to completely endorse all your comments regarding both clubs and table maintenance. 100% correct.
Over many years one minor correction to the volcano effect of dust under the spots I have found very effective is to needle the spot by inserting a slightly bent needle through the centre and Lightly spin round to disperse the dust. Obviously this is not as effective as a strip and stretch service but works well in the short term.
In addition have you heard of 'blocking' using Flotex. It removes finger marks like nothing I've ever tried before.

yes I was told about the flotex about 18 months ago from our local club who mixes with a few pro players and travels the circuit with them , he demonstrated the flotex to me , and I thought WOW thats good .
the fine nap bristle of the flotex do a fantastic job of sepperating the napped cloth and laying it flat for the iron .
I have mentioned it on the forum before under the table maintence thread .I would still block it first with a normal cloth wrapped block then use the flotex .

as for putting a needle into the cloth under the spot , it just moves the compacted dust away from the spot but never gets rid of it . a light sanding of the slate is realy the only way to 100% remove it , and that is a recover or stretch job at the same time .

[Geoff Large]

Geoff. Just to completely endorse all your comments regarding both clubs and table maintenance. 100% correct.
Over many years one minor correction to the volcano effect of dust under the spots I have found very effective is to needle the spot by inserting a slightly bent needle through the centre and Lightly spin round to disperse the dust. Obviously this is not as effective as a strip and stretch service but works well in the short term.
In addition have you heard of 'blocking' using Flotex. It removes finger marks like nothing I've ever tried before.

yes I was told about the flotex about 18 months ago from our local club who mixes with a few pro players and travels the circuit with them , he demonstrated the flotex to me , and I thought WOW thats good .
the fine nap bristle of the flotex do a fantastic job of sepperating the napped cloth and laying it flat for the iron .
I have mentioned it on the forum before under the table maintenence thread .I would still block it first with a normal cloth wrapped block then use the flotex .

as for putting a needle into the cloth under the spot , it just moves the compacted dust away from the spot but never gets rid of it . a light sanding of the slate is realy the only way to 100% remove it , and that is a recover or stretch job at the same time .
and I did note you said it was a short term fix to use the needle to disperse .

[hotpot]

Very interesting . Geoff our table has two tram lines on some of the corner pockets , would this happen to be a build up of dust aswell .

[franksandellsnooker]

Very interesting . Geoff our table has two tram lines on some of the corner pockets , would this happen to be a build up of dust aswell .

Dust certainly wont help but the tracking you describe is common to all cloths where a full stretch service is overdue. In the trade the white/greyish marks you describe are caused by fibrillation which is a crushing of the fibres and redistribution of the reflected light. Tables with a poorly defined undercut to the rubber causing the running ball to be trapped between cushion and bed are the most vulnerable. The longer it goes without a service the sooner the cloth will tear and need a recover.:snooker:

[DWOT]

When you place the ball close to the spots they roll into the divots, henc emy assumption the slate is screwed, could just be that the cloth has worn so thin where the spot are?

Very interesting stuff all the same though.

[Geoff Large]

Re question on tram lines in this thread .

When I first started in this trade , the undercutt to the rubber came to a knife point , I started to notice from TV tables that some fitters where trying to keep the flat nose profile all the way into the pocket , and I adjusted my cutting of the undercutt to copy this way of forming the angle and undercutt to the cushion .

I noticed with the knife edge undercutt that the ball is deflected downwards at greater force , the tram lines will wear in quicker if youre table has the old method of Undercutt , and there are still a few fitters out there who still rerubber in this way .

By keeping a flat face for the ball to only make contact with the bottom edge of that flat face , it also gives less downwards force to the pocket opening area , making the cloth last longer in that area .

Have a look at a few tables , especialy those that have not been rerubbered since the early 1970s
You will find there are a few tables that are still sporting the knife edge undercutt .

also the angle of undercutt is also detriment to the tram lines apearing fast , less undercutt will be better for the cloth wearing well , more undercutt and the ball is forced downwards resulting in badly worn tram lines in the pocket openings .

Sadly stretching is not considered a must in some clubs , which in some ways is correct if the table is recovered every 12 months , but to ask any longer wear rate from modern thin cloths , it is just not going to happen .

The prefered cloth we used to recover when I first came into the trade was No6 strachan and a hunt and winterbottom cloth , both these cloths where as thick as Carpet tiles , and played very slow , but lasted years .
Club Secreterys loved it , But players hated it .
I still get the ocasional recover with this old stuff still on , and on the new recover in say (6811 T or hainsworth smart ) I have to make new cushion slips to make sure the cushion cloth is retained tight as the old slips are planed down too thin for the old thicker cloth . so useless to use on the new thiner cloths of today .
we used to get 2 stretches out of that old thick cloth .

[Geoff Large]

another point about dust under the cloth forming lump's

I have noticed over the years that just in front of the end cushions is also an area for hard dust lumps forming , this is caused by the ball hitting the end cushion and slightley jumping , this jumping is normaly the result of the worn cushion cloth or greased cushion cloth from dirty sweaty hands on the nose of the cushion .

You get this on tables that have not been recovered for a while .

when the cloth is taken off the bed , in front of the entire end cushion ( spot end is the worst ) lumps of impacted dust , about 4 inch strip from nose of the cushion , we simply sand this away before fitting a new bed cloth .

[Acrowot]

Thanks Geoff, for your very informative posts. We get a lot of useful information from men like you. Only wish our club would let you come and do whatever our tables need doing to them to put them right, but think they go to a company that must be quite cheap. The people on the committee do not play snooker and do not like to take notice of the players, some who do not even know that our tables are very slow, because that is all they know. Many years ago, these tables were kept in good condition.
:snooker:

[Geoff Large]

I am afraid it's all speed fitting in todays market , lower prices mean more tables to do in a week , less time to make sure the table is level . pocket openeings are correct and uniformed , rubber is glued onto it's block , worn nets and leathers replaced , missing nut's on rails replaced etc .

Localy the amount of work a fitter should do in a day with no traveling , is 1 Recover nets and leathers plus level , or if in good condition , 1 recover and a stretch on another table in the same club . #Replastering of the slate is sometime required .

I know of a fitter doing 2 to 3 recovers a day with a labourer , a fitter working at that speed is going to cutt corners . they leave rubber hanging off blocks , leave nets and leathers with holes in them , tables are not checked for level , and not even Ironed after the fitting of the cloth ETC .

and when we quote to a club our price of around £385 + vat to a club secretery , they reply , I can get them recovered at £240 / £260 a table no vat ?
now a time served fitter is going to be on around £500 a week plus traveling expenses of around £250 a week , plus hotels and food etc .
I call the cheaper quote as a HIT And RUN job the table will always look nice with a new cloth just fitted , and this blind's people to the underlying problems of the job just done , and believe me a fitter going to put work right is not going to be very pleased at the mess he has to sort out by these lower quoted fitters .
They staple over staples in the cushion , nail slips in , leave rubber hanging off blocks , use extra long staples to make sure they get past the old staples , it is a complete nighmare putting the job back in order , only for the next secretery to get them back in again for a cheaper quote after a few years .

No wonder there are less and less Time served fitters about , if these guys are doing the training then the next batch of so called fitters are going to be worse .

if anyone gets a quote less then the average of £365 / £385 for a recover they have to question is the job going to be right ?
always check the quality of cloth being fitted , a good fitter will show the customer , the stamp on the cloth edge , look for 6811 tournament strachan cloth , and Hainsworth smart cloth , there are lower priced cloths by stracahan like 6811 club cloth , and this is around £20 to £30 less in price .
SUBSTANDARD cloth from this manufacturer is around half price and has a substandard transfer on the cloth . these lower priced fitters do use lower priced cloth .

[franksandellsnooker]

From a semi retired cuesport company owner I once again endorse your every word. I once had 350 odd sites but now only see old reliable clients who know from experience and value our traditional service.
By the way your prices for 6811 T. are bloody good.

[DWOT]

I am afraid it's all speed fitting in todays market , lower prices mean more tables to do in a week , less time to make sure the table is level . pocket openeings are correct and uniformed , rubber is glued onto it's block , worn nets and leathers replaced , missing nut's on rails replaced etc .

Localy the amount of work a fitter should do in a day with no traveling , is 1 Recover nets and leathers plus level , or if in good condition , 1 recover and a stretch on another table in the same club . #Replastering of the slate is sometime required .

I know of a fitter doing 2 to 3 recovers a day with a labourer , a fitter working at that speed is going to cutt corners . they leave rubber hanging off blocks , leave nets and leathers with holes in them , tables are not checked for level , and not even Ironed after the fitting of the cloth ETC .

and when we quote to a club our price of around £385 + vat to a club secretery , they reply , I can get them recovered at £240 / £260 a table no vat ?
now a time served fitter is going to be on around £500 a week plus traveling expenses of around £250 a week , plus hotels and food etc .
I call the cheaper quote as a HIT And RUN job the table will always look nice with a new cloth just fitted , and this blind's people to the underlying problems of the job just done , and believe me a fitter going to put work right is not going to be very pleased at the mess he has to sort out by these lower quoted fitters .
They staple over staples in the cushion , nail slips in , leave rubber hanging off blocks , use extra long staples to make sure they get past the old staples , it is a complete nighmare putting the job back in order , only for the next secretery to get them back in again for a cheaper quote after a few years .

No wonder there are less and less Time served fitters about , if these guys are doing the training then the next batch of so called fitters are going to be worse .

if anyone gets a quote less then the average of £365 / £385 for a recover they have to question is the job going to be right ?
always check the quality of cloth being fitted , a good fitter will show the customer , the stamp on the cloth edge , look for 6811 tournament strachan cloth , and Hainsworth smart cloth , there are lower priced cloths by stracahan like 6811 club cloth , and this is around £20 to £30 less in price .
SUBSTANDARD cloth from this manufacturer is around half price and has a substandard transfer on the cloth . these lower priced fitters do use lower priced cloth .

I might be giving you a call soon as our table needs sorting big time! Our AGM in a week or so and I'll mention your services then.

[Geoff Large]

thats ok and many thanks if you do , I do not state these posts to get work for the firm , beleive it or not we are always busy which is rare in this day and age ,
I just like people to know there are Better ways of getting a job done , and I am afraid cheaply is not one of them , niether is overcharging .

[poolqjunkie]

Learnt a lot form reading these valuable and knowledgable posts, thanks so much.
Glad also to see someone not willing to cut corners and takes great pride in his work. Great stuff!!!