Fitting No.10 cloth

[jarcher]

Whoever said this was the hardest to fit?

At my first ever attempt, I've fitted 2 tables with this and it was a breeze in comparison to smart cloth which I'm currently restretching onto another table. The smart cloth seems so much more elastic and difficult to get tight all over without fear of it ripping.

All I can say is hats off to billiard fitters, as although I'm finding it quite easy to do, my hands are raw from cloth burn, my back is wrecking and arms are sore lol

Initially I'm only doing this myself to help keep costs down and all no.10 cloth is ex-tournament, but when getting new cloth again, I'm definately getting a good fitter in.

Oh, and getting the middle pockets right is the biggest pain in the @55 lol

[Geoff Large]

Hi Jarcher , Try fitting it as a new unfitted cloth then you will see how much harder than other cloths it is .

Fitting any second hand ex tournement cloth will be easy so long as it has not shrunk .

there is a Grade called no 6 that is very thick that is also hard to fit .

6811 and smart is the easier of all cloths to fit . second hand or new .

[Acrowot]

Will you be looking in at Clay Cross in June, Geof? Cannot be far from you.

[Geoff Large]

No it's not far , never done it before , but have passed it many times , we are a bit slack in june work is drying up , this happens some years but not for long , so if they get in touch with the firm ....Elston & hopkin just google it speak to Ted Roberts , I am sure a special rate could be arranged for that month .
I suspect it is a combination of two things the hot weather we have been having , and the economic climate . who wants to be in a Dark snooker club when they can get the barby out and a few low cost beers , , and on the other hand people who have been laid off or down to say a three day week , this delays money for a short period coming into the clubs . and clubs cutt their cloth acordingly .

Geoff

[jarcher]

Hi Jarcher , Try fitting it as a new unfitted cloth then you will see how much harder than other cloths it is .

Fitting any second hand ex tournement cloth will be easy so long as it has not shrunk .

there is a Grade called no 6 that is very thick that is also hard to fit .

6811 and smart is the easier of all cloths to fit . second hand or new .

Thanks for the reply Geoff. What is it that makes the new cloth so much harder to fit if you don't mind me asking?
And what's the no.6? Never heard of it. Is it fast or more like club cloth?

Final question lol can slack cloth on the cushions make them appear to have a bad bounce, or would the slow bounce generally indicate new rubbers being required?

[Geoff Large]

New cloth is harder for a novice to fit because it has not been on before , for example the pocket falls have allready been stretched once and are easier to just restretch to form around those falls , from the experienced fitter who put it on from new .

No 6 cloth is an old type of cloth whcih was gradualy not used after the late 90s but can still be ordered on special order but you have to buy the whole roll , the reason for slowness is two fold it is nearly as thick as carpet tiles , second reason it lasts too long so you do not sell too much of it .
Playing on a no6 cloth = a very slow table . club Secreteries used to love it , a recover every 5 to 10 years in somecases , it used to last so long before splitting on the slate falls .
And you say you had cloth burns on youre hands , this stuff would strip youre knuckle skin off to the bone , and it's what I first started on when I was an aprentice , my hands and knuckles soon hardened up .

Rubbers have many reasons for being slow , one is age , after say 20 to 25 years they will require replaceing , some firms used to say only 10 years , but thats being a bit too rich .
other reasons is , NEW rubber just fitted requires Bruising in , just like a squash ball has to be warmed up , new rubber has to soften a little with impacts from Play , it can take upto 6 months before they are Broken in on a private table . and only a couple of weeks on a regular used club table .
also new cloth just fitted to cushions is tight and is strangleing the rubber , until the cloth on the cushions has eased off and slackened a bit , the rubber is rerstricted in it's bounce by the cloth being tight .

Another thing that reduces bounce is Tempreture of the room , not only when in use but when not in use , a Table should never be kept below 60f to keep rubber from going hard . i suggest a oil filled raditor set at 60f under atable , this will warm the slate and this is like a storage heater , the slates are warm which in turn lets warm air into the rubber . a cover over the table will help trap this warm air in .

there are some technical reason too why they may be slow , one is rubber too high on block , others is they where stratched too much on aplying to the Block , loose blocks , lightwieght cushions , Chinese rubber when northern rubber should be used ...the list can go on , i'm just scratching the surface

One more reason which is very common , when a No 6 thick cloth is used on cushions the thick cloth on the underside of the cushion has the effect of making the impact at below nose of cushion , so lower blocks are fitted to compensate or old blocks adjusted by planing under side , then someone comes along and fits 6811 which is much thinner , the block is now too low and the ball starts jumping up off the cushion .
we are getting this problem a lot , from tables that where covered in no6 in the 80s and 90s , which are now being recovered in the modern thinner cloths .
a simple solution before recovering the cushion is to fit a small layer of cloth under the block or better still a veneer of wood to lift the block to compensate for the low blocks .

[jarcher]

Thanks for the info Geoff, as usual, very informative.

The rubbers are actually on the main table I use in my club, which had not been used much over a few years and temperatures in the room could have got quite cold during that time. I've since put 6 x 4ft tube heaters under the table, which are on a thermostat and on 24/7 to keep the cloth dry, but I have noticed that in comparison to the other tables in the hall, my cushions just seem a bit dead. They are covered in Smart cloth which is now quite slack and I didn't know if simply recovering the cushions with the cloth being that slight bit tighter would help, or if it looks like a re-rubber is the answer.

I'm doing everything in the club on a very very tight budget, but at the same time, I'm not going to tackle a re-rubber myself, as if the blocks need replacing etc, I wouldn't want to take the risk of getting it wrong.

The templates I had talked to you about previously never materialised, so I am going to make a proper set, of which I will send you a set when I have them made, but again, as you had said... I am a novice lol, and I will only tackle what I feel comfortable with.

I am on the lookout for 2nd hand steel blocks too just in case you come across any that are going cheap... a friend of mine has new freeze's which I can put to them to make them look like new.

Also, our tournament lighting is going up within the next week or two... it's just nice to play in conditions that are enjoyable and is also getting more players coming into our club, which is good, but by the looks of it, I may have to start saving to get you to come over to rerubber a few of the tables cushions at some point... the sooner the better obviously, but I don't own the club... just the team captain lol and want the best for our team players, but I'll see what I can do with the finances

[finabb]

We had an exhibition last night when Stephen Lee came to our place to play.
I watched the table fitter put the table up which was interesting, but what surprised me a little was that he sprayed clothes ironing starch on the table then ironed it but best of all pledge polish around the pockets so the balls didn't rattle but just slipped in

[jarcher]

Interesting, did he spray the pledge direct onto the jaws of the pockets? I've heard that some refs polish the balls with pledge too prior to tournaments.

[Geoff Large]

We had an exhibition last night when Stephen Lee came to our place to play.
I watched the table fitter put the table up which was interesting, but what surprised me a little was that he sprayed clothes ironing starch on the table then ironed it but best of all pledge polish around the pockets so the balls didn't rattle but just slipped in

Iv'e used starch on centre pocket falls in the past on american pool cloth and ironed it yes ironed Speed cloth you can do it but have to be very carefull not to get the iron too hot .....but the guy puting furniture polish on a cloth wants shooting ... Balls will kick if they get any of the resedue on them it could have silicons and wax in and the starch could have silicon too you have to use a silicon free starch ....just plain Crazy to use furniture Polish though .

One of the main reasons Balls skid around pockets and come out is when they are worn and the cloth has no nap , all he is doing putting a slippery polish like PLEDGE ? is replicating a worn Bed and cushion cloth in the opening jaws of the pocket .
I will be recovering a match table at Selby soon , when it had new cloth the players in the league all voted it the best table to pl;ay on , as it has worn in the shiny worn cloth in the pocket openings are rejecting the ball out as it is unable to grip the cushion cloth and then deflect off the undercutt of the opening , you need Grip not slippiness to pot a ball , at the moment the players are not happy with it , but I can honestly say after another recover it will be back to it's best in accepting the balls into the pocket without skidding .

I would like to know WHO had taught a billiard fitter to put Pledge on a table cloth ? and how he came about useing it ?

and he should not require starch on Wool Billiard cloth , he could just damp the cloth with damp hands or by mister bottle and then iron it this will shrink fit it , I only tried Starch on american pool tables Because they slack off very quick after recovering and wrinkles can apear very quick , so expermented in useing starch which was a silicon free product to see if it would help keep the wrinkles at bay , I was very pleased at the result , we have a contract with a well known 10 pin bowling alley chain and since I have been useing it , I,ve had 100% results in no wrinkles apearing on them after the recover .
all we need to do now is teach people not to sit on cushions as rubber and cushion cloth is always coming off because of this issue , but thats down to the floor staff not the fitter .