Snooker table advice - new or old?

[Caspar]

Hello everyone!

I'm in the process of converting the top floor of my house, so in a couple of months' time I should be able to fulfil my childhood dream of having my own snooker table at home.

The space available is about 8m x 4.65m, so although the room is more than long enough for a table of any size I think the width (15 ft 3") will only allow for a 10 ft table - but that's OK with me.

I live in Germany right next to the borders with France and Luxembourg, so it's not really snooker territory, but I have found a dealer in Metz in France (about 45 mins from my house) that will sell me a new Riley Renaissance for € 4,160 (and another € 180 for transport/installation), which seems a very good price when comparing with other sellers (incl. in the UK):
http://www.jmc-billard.com/billiards...ml?language=en

Four grand is about the maximum I could spend on the table, so new Aristocrats etc. are not an option. I have been wondering, however, if a second-hand table would be better. I have found a couple of 10 ft snooker tables in Essen in Germany (about 3 hrs away) that are much cheaper (€ 1,200-1,350)
http://www.gebrauchtebillardtische.c...kertische.html
This site doesn't give many details, but it would seem that even with new cloth and cushions it should be quite a bit cheaper than a new table.

What would you do? Get the new table and save yourself the hassle or buy a second-hand table and have it refurbished? Would the latter be as good? Would it be better? What should I beware of in a used table? What are the pitfalls?

Any input would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
Caspar

[philip in china]

I just discovered this thread and wondered why nobody had answered.

You can get some beautiful tables second hand for a better porice than a new one and often better quality. If you buy an old table, though, there is the risk that there might be a problem whereas with a new one you should have some sort of a guarantee.

Do you have somebody who really knows how to assemble and level the table. (See the towards the end of "Table Maintenance" thread for some horror stories.

[Caspar]

Nice to see someone read my post.

In the end I got a 10 ft Riley Aristocrat (approx. 11 years old) delivered from the UK and installed with new cloth and cushions - looks brand new - at about the same price as the new Riley Renaissance would have been.

I hope I made the right choice; so far everything is OK!

[EvilDealer]

Get some pics on mate

[Caspar]

Here you go!
Riley10ft.jpg

[1blonde]

lovely...happy days

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

Here you go!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]8788[/ATTACH]

Nice room but looks like some pretty bad shadows from the lighting!

[Caspar]

Nice room but looks like some pretty bad shadows from the lighting!

Well, I have blinds on all the windows, so I don't normally have the strong sunlight from the left that you can see in this photo (responsible for the huge shadows you can see - in particular by the green, brown and yellow balls), but even so I am not satisfied with the lights over the table.

Traditional light bulbs are no longer sold in high wattage and the so-called eco-friendly ones (the ones containing mercury ) give an unpleasant light that make all the colours look the same, so I tried halogen ones. I don't, however, find them bright enough and the clear bulbs produce a very white starry splodge directly below.
Perhaps I should try LED bulbs - although they cost an arm and a leg ...

What would you suggest - short of changing the lamp itself as well?

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

Well, I have blinds on all the windows, so I don't normally have the strong sunlight from the left that you can see in this photo (responsible for the huge shadows you can see - in particular by the green, brown and yellow balls), but even so I am not satisfied with the lights over the table.

Traditional light bulbs are no longer sold in high wattage and the so-called eco-friendly ones (the ones containing mercury ) give an unpleasant light that make all the colours look the same, so I tried halogen ones. I don't, however, find them bright enough and the clear bulbs produce a very white starry splodge directly below.
Perhaps I should try LED bulbs - although they cost an arm and a leg ...

What would you suggest - short of changing the lamp itself as well?

Sorry, I have been away from fitting tables for that long that I am unable to advise on the best "modern" lighting. My era it was a "coffin" shade with 4 light bulbs and a centre baffle or a fluroscent tube set up. I notice that there are a few comments on this forum regarding improved lighting but I think they relate to changing the lighting as a whole rather the lamps used.
One thing I will say is the lamp holders were always set at an angle in the shades that we manufactured as opposed to being vertical which splayed the light across the shade rather than directly down onto the table.

[Geoff Large]

http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...light=lighting

these are the way to go , they are 5 foot long two end to end , cost around £100 a pair from most electrical wholesalers .

[philip in china]

Thank you. That picture goes into the "snooker room" file.

[DeanH]

Sorry, I have been away from fitting tables for that long that I am unable to advise on the best "modern" lighting. My era it was a "coffin" shade with 4 light bulbs and a centre baffle or a fluroscent tube set up. I notice that there are a few comments on this forum regarding improved lighting but I think they relate to changing the lighting as a whole rather the lamps used.

Apologies for hijacking this thread but you made the above comment and caught my attention.
At the social club we have a Joe Davis coffin with 4 bulbs and a centre baffle (reflecting surface) as you describe. As mentioned elsewhere to get bright bulbs is near impossible (unless someone knows a good source?) and we have very poor lighting.
I have mentioned to the committee about the Dextra Duet - where we would buy and fit two double ceiling units for about £200 for the pair but the committee have said that they would prefer to keep the coffin and convert it to flourescent tubes - probably they think this would the cheaper option.
Have you every done this to a coffin before?
Do you have an advice/warnings?
Would the tubes be the high frequency white tubes for best "natural" light?
Anything else I have not mentioned?
Any help would be great, cheers in advance.

[Geoff Large]

I think I can explain it to you .

The joe Davies Metal ( made by Hartley engineering ) coffin shade has a centre V baffel riveted on that you would have to remove to fit any form of strip lighting this will also weaken the shape of the metal shade as it is part of it's structure , in it's day the Hartley engeneerd Joe davies signiture shade was the best available with its side ways recessed bulb holders cutting down on bulbs hanging down and causing bright glare so close above the playing surface , Converting a coffin shade is not only old fashioned but defeating the object of getting as near to tournament lighting conditions as possible , also the Joe davies shade is designed to hang at approx 32 to 34 inches above the table , and the new lighting like the Dextra units is best at 5 foot above the playing surface , well away from the table itself and making conversation with others around the table much easier as you can actualy see their face when the coffin shade would only let you talk to their lower torso .
Costs wise the Dextra lighting is only £52 per unit inc vat so £104 inc vat per full sized table , plus costs any hanging chains or cables and hooks etc . but you can use the hanging chains that is allready on the coffin shade or if the ceiling is low enough for a neater look directley screw to ceiling , if hanging I recomend two pieces of 8ft angle iron to screw both units to and then drill holes in the angle iron for the chains .
the lighting would be 10foot long as they are two 5 foot units in lenth end to end .
Converting the joe davies shade would be around £65 for a 6 foot Dextra unit , but the shade would not emmit as much cover of light as the higher twin 5 foot units .
and with the unit still hanging at 32/34 inch from the playing surface the light is too close for the players eyes , they have to be hung upwards of around 5 foot from the playing surface , the depth of the coffing shade may not allow this clearence , and even if you could hang the coffin shade 5 foot above the playing surface , it would not look good and not enough light from one unit for the lenth of the table , the balls would cast long shadows at the end of the table , unlike the two 5 foot units being 10 foot long the lighting power is constant the entire lenth of the table .

Costs do not include fitting though so you have to allow for that , but then again only a qualified electrician is allowed by law to wire the lights up , and you would have that cost on the conversion of the coffin shade or of the fitting of the Dextra lighting which is in my opinion the best way to go .

just to show the differance here are two photo's of the same table taken a few years apart , one with jimmy white with a coffin shade behind on the match table , the second is with Mark selby with the Dextra lighting above the same table ,



Geoff

[DeanH]

As usual Geoff, spot on.
Yes the coffin is rivetted inside, I have already had a look and this concerned me hence my posting for advice.
I thought the price of the Dextra was about £100 each, so even more good news
I will pass on your comments to the committee.
cheers
ps the club chairman is an electrician so save some costs there

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

Dean H in answer to your question, now you've got to remember that the last time I worked as a fitter for Enbild was around 91/92.
The Enbild "coffin" shades were wooden, the centre baffle was removable as it was made of chipboard and only fitted once on site (for ease of stacking multiple shades). The standard baffle for a shade set up for bulbs was a solid piece, where as the baffle for a shade set up to take a tube had a cut out to allow the tube to run through. We also used to do a "match" shade where the standard shade could hold 4 tubes and an aluminium frames would sit slighly below the line of the shade to hold 4 frosted perspex sheets. This was very effective considering the lighting available at the time. We used to provide the tables for the Framework league matches (Howard Krugers stable) and for that set up we actually had two shades bolted side by side with the same aliminium frame & perspex covering both shades. These were obviously set much higher than a standard shade with a total of 8 tubes providing the light.