Riley Aristocrat upstairs install

[Geoff Large]

Today we installed a second hand Riley Aristocrat upstairs above a new build garage .
A Very thin stair case which resulted in 4 of us walking sideways upstairs with the slate slung with carrying straps , a Dangerous thing to do is to lift this much weight with youre spine twisted sideways and out of alignment with youre natural frontal stance , lucky for us we survived it .





The table was an ex rental table that we have had out a few years , we just repolished the cushions , the frame work was just waxed , the customers budget did not extend to a full renovation and he was not looking to spend on a new or full recon antique , but for the price paid around £1900 installed I think he got a good buy , and the install was upstairs .

Geoff

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

Hi Geoff, who do you work for is it Elston & Hopwith or something like that? Seem to remember doing some deliveries to Nottingham/Derby area for Enbild bit it's at least 20 years ago and the memory's not that good!

[Geoff Large]

Yes we where enbild agents for the east midlands until enbild went under , it's Eslton and hopkin . and you prob met Myself and Roger and it would be in the late 1980s early 90s .
we must have sold around 100 enbild tables during that period , and also set two of our clubs up with embilds too .
Hand floated slates and i only had to send one set back out of all those tables .
do you know what happend to the slate floating equipment that enbild had , an iron diamond grid with two ten foot poles ?

Geoff

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

Ah now I remember you were agents it's all coming back. Before Enbild went totally under Jim Griffiths set up with his son Mike and one of the fitters Paul Williams to form Griffiths & Williams, I went to work for them for 6 months before I left Liverpool. The floating equipment went with us though we never used it again and I guess it was just tossed in the end.

[Geoff Large]

I rememeber jim amd mike Griffiths i think Mike was abit chunky in those days , but I think it was another fitter that often came and helped us on some large jobs like a snooker hall with 16 tables in loughborough , shame about the floating equipment as I am after one , so many dished slates out there , ah well I shall have to make one .
I managed to pick an engineers straight edge up 6 foot long to check the slates after floating , I paid £200 for it in an EX mod sale , they are just under £1000 to buy from moore and wright , and this one was still in it's grease proof paper and boxed as new

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

Wow you certainly got a good deal there. The Enbild fitter who often helped you if it wasn't Paul or me (Keith) must have been either Billy, Geoff or Phil. Me Phil, and Paul were the youngest in our 20's where as Billy and Geoff were both in their forty's. Do you float your own slates now?

[Geoff Large]

I think it was a subcontractor fitter that Jim sometimes used , I think his name was Mick daly , no the only sets I have floated was when enbild came down to nottinghams First Frame club now a Rileys and we dismantled three BCE tables and took one frame outside and three sets of slates and refloated them on the Car park , thats when I asked the two guys from enbild to have a go , Elston and hopkin where never manufacturers of full sized tables so we never got to do this type of work floating slates etc .
we are now having so many 1980s manufactured tables that have sagged ( dished slates ) due to muntings not touching the slates in the centre and supporting them .
I would just like to offer a Refloating service being as no one is practicing this art anymore .
an exchange slate service so to speak if bolt holes are the same . and at the same time fit adjustable muntings to support the centres from future sagging .
Right I'm off to bed , good to speak to you Keith , I must have met you in the past and look forward to speaking to you again .
Oh just rememebred the Grit used to float as a cutting agent used by enbild I was told was from the river mersey was they pulling my leg or did they realy dig it up from the low tide of the mersey ?

Geoff

[philip in china]

Probably was Mersey grit. It is a very abrasive sharp sand. Used a lot for making concrete.

[philip in china]

Today we installed a second hand Riley Aristocrat upstairs above a new build garage .
A Very thin stair case which resulted in 4 of us walking sideways upstairs with the slate slung with carrying straps , a Dangerous thing to do is to lift this much weight with youre spine twisted sideways and out of alignment with youre natural frontal stance , lucky for us we survived it .





The table was an ex rental table that we have had out a few years , we just repolished the cushions , the frame work was just waxed , the customers budget did not extend to a full renovation and he was not looking to spend on a new or full recon antique , but for the price paid around £1900 installed I think he got a good buy , and the install was upstairs .

Geoff

What is involved in a "full restoration"?

[Neil Taperell]

That's a great price Geoff for supply and install .

[Geoff Large]

Phil ,Full refurb would be rerubber , new nets leathers and rails , full table repolish , and by repolish I mean full strip back to wood not waft over with dark tar like substance to hide everything .recover in 6811T . a full refurbed table would have been £3500 + vat
you have to be carefull with these complete package prices on ebay , they are not what they seem to be , I have had to finnish some so called full refurbs off , easy cover up is no new rubber . or wafted over frames in treacle like varnish . they look nice in a photo but in real life they can be a mess .
This table and the one we fitted in dorsett mentioned in another thread where good buys and value I think , we realise there is not much money around and have to cater for both markets . but we never cutt corners .

We do various types refurbs but ALWAYS leave it up to the customer how much they want to spend .

and they always know what is or what is not being replaced or renovated .

for instance the table had 4.5 bounce lenths on it so the customer opted not to spend the extra £300 for a rerubber and this will prob be done 6 years down the line when it is due another recover as it is private use table , also the nets and leathers where replaced around 6 months ago on this table so they where kept and the customer saved the price of these and the fitting charge of them , we did repolish the cushions and the slide out panels to as new , and recovered in west of england cloth which these two costs alone come to £385 for recover and £250 for cushions polished . labour for fitting would have come to £200 for fitter and £60 per man labour for the day to take upstairs , the customer supplied two men so fitting fee was £260 .
total that up and the cost comes to £895 , add the delivery costs of fuel and driver say £200 and thats £1095 just to part renovate and install . plus around £140 worth of new tackle .
So in reality the customer only paid £765 for the table in its raw stae Ok there was plus 20% vat on total bill and he did pay extra for a nearly new shade and s/h iron . but all tackle was new includeing scoreboard balls triangle long tackle and rests and cues plus cue rack . and 4 new hooks .
I have forgot to add the recovering of cushions and the preping I did = 1 day in wharehouse .

breaking the cost of the table down you can see where all the money is spent .

we just wanted to move ex rental stock out of the wharehouse so this customer I think got a good service and value for a table .

Some people who sell new Artistocrats in standard cushion fornmat are asking for £6000 + vat for a new table thats £7200 inc vat , plus they would have charged extra for fitting it , looking at that cost and what was acheived with these costs , I think we saved the customer a lot of money as he was thinking of a new table . ok the frame has a few dings here and there from rests being bashed into the wood when replaceing it back on the hooks , but this will happen to a new table in time .

[Deepscrew]

I dont suppose using a basic square leg club table frame would offer much of a saving if the aristocrat table comes in at £765...seems a bargain.

Must sort out my garage!

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

[QUOTE=Geoff Large;602114]I think it was a subcontractor fitter that Jim sometimes used , I think his name was Mick daly , no the only sets I have floated was when enbild came down to nottinghams First Frame club now a Rileys and we dismantled three BCE tables and took one frame outside and three sets of slates and refloated them on the Car park , thats when I asked the two guys from enbild to have a go , Elston and hopkin where never manufacturers of full sized tables so we never got to do this type of work floating slates etc .
we are now having so many 1980s manufactured tables that have sagged ( dished slates ) due to muntings not touching the slates in the centre and supporting them .
I would just like to offer a Refloating service being as no one is practicing this art anymore .
an exchange slate service so to speak if bolt holes are the same . and at the same time fit adjustable muntings to support the centres from future sagging .
Right I'm off to bed , good to speak to you Keith , I must have met you in the past and look forward to speaking to you again .
Oh just rememebred the Grit used to float as a cutting agent used by enbild I was told was from the river mersey was they pulling my leg or did they realy dig it up from the low tide of the mersey ?


Ah I forgot about Dave Maguire (Miggy) who worked for himself it must have been him. Mersey Grit, I'm sure I read that in the brochures of the time as well! Lets just say we used to keep it in a pile outside the floating shed and dry it on an open fire before use, it was delivered by the ton from a building merchant!

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

Geoff,

It's been great speaking to you and reading your posts, takes me right back to those enjoyable days at Enbild. Did you know that in order to keep up with the demand for floated slates in relation to production at the time which was massive, the guys who floated the slates done it on a bonus incentive scheme. There were a couple of pairs of guys who floated them though the main guy was one of the workshop joiners who had a regular apprentice joiner who floated with him. He worked like a madman and sometimes I think the apprentice just tied himself to the pole! The floating shed, a wooden structure at the back of the workshop was freezing in the winter but they soon warmed up believe me. Have you come across many Enbild tables over the years, my particular favourite was the grand duke (mahogany) or grand duchess (oak). To think we were turning tables out in batches of 50 back then and struggled to keep with demand! I personally also thought that our shade was a work of art the way it was designed and constructed was very clever. As an apprentice I must have stapled on miles of fringe and wired hundreds of shades in the workshop. I still have the tools, including to name a few, engineers level, stainless steel jack,iron and thousands of 5/8 tacks!!!

[Geoff Large]

I dont suppose using a basic square leg club table frame would offer much of a saving if the aristocrat table comes in at £765...seems a bargain.

Must sort out my garage!

Not much use for square leg tables we have problems shifting them they often get scrapped unless it's one of the oak riley imperials which we recomend for barn conversions as they look great in that setting just bees waxed to look a bit more rustic , but all square legs they are often overlooked for a nicer turned leg for private instalations .