******* sized table

[Geoff Large]

Not a lot of people know what to call an odd sized billiard table , but I was taught many years ago that they are called B*****D sized . and it is in the dictionary meaning odd sized item .
I have come across only an hand full of these tables over the years , one was from a viacarage in south devon , where the table was built to fit the Libary room size, this room had book cases all around ther room on all 4 sides , so the table was around 8ft 9inch long .
Today I have come across another B*****D sized table , one that I have worked on in the past two or three times for the same client , this table having an odd sized 3 section 1 inch thick slate of 10ft 6.5inch long , x 5 foot 5inch and 5/8ths wide .
Now these tables can catch us out when a client insists that it is for instance a 10ft , so we cutt off 10ft bed and cushions and arrive to recover the table only to find it is 10ft 6.5inch and the cloth we just cutt off will not fit the table .
here is the photo of the table , the table is very old having a 1inch slate bed and those thin cushion cappings , also the top plates are the very old squared off rebated type , I would date the table around 1860/70s.
No makers name on the table but there is a filled in part on the cushion capping that would have had a name plate inserted in there and from the shape and lenth of this insert , I think it's a Thurston .

[Deepscrew]

I really enjoy these posts, Geoff. Good stuff!!

[jim evans]

table

i believe we had a couple in sheffield i was told by an old man the 1 we had in our pub snooker room was donated by the church reading rooms,he as since passed away but he told me the table was 12ft 3ins by 6ft 3ins made by burroughs and watts as a pair,when the pub shut it was stripped down and the slates were left outside and then they were stolen,the slates were a set of 5 prob 2ins thick or near

[jrc750]

Talking of strange sized tables, has anybody ever made a table bigger than a full size (i notice tho that Jim has just mentioned 12' 3") ie, how did thay decide upon the current size, were bigger tables tried out 1st ??

[Geoff Large]

Talking of strange sized tables, has anybody ever made a table bigger than a full size (i notice tho that Jim has just mentioned 12' 3") ie, how did thay decide upon the current size, were bigger tables tried out 1st ??

I have read soemwhere that a 14foot table went to a south american country in fact I think it was two tables sent out to that continent , and Mexico / Brazil or Chile rings a bell somewhere . also maybe one to an eastern country ?
I think it is mentioned in the book A trade history by R J Michell . I shall have to dig my copy out and read up on it .
I have often come across a 6ft 2 inch wide slate which is 1/2 inch wider , you only notice these things when marking out , and placeing the centre line string down the slate , to the eye it looks just the same .
there are plenty of 12ft by 6 ft slates , but the majority are 12 by 6ft 1.5 inch wide , don't ask me why the extra 1.5 inch Iv'e never asked anyone ? but most slates are that size and is what I consider the norm .

Geoff

[Geoff Large]

Found the book but cannot see in it's contents where I read about oversized tables so maybe from another Book .Maybe 100 upper may have read it somewhere too ?
I did find an explanation on why the width is 1.5 inch wider than 6ft though , it says for an exact square from centre of table , but also goes onto explain with differant overhang measurements of the bock and rubber this is not always going to be correct .
But for anyone wanting a good book , they should look out for the book Billiards and snooker a trade history by J R Michell .
the content is very good for an A4 type soft cover book , explaining almost the full evolution of the billiard table into the modern table of today , stories of firms and their fitters , cue's / balls / cloth , all get a mention on how they evolved .
sorry I do not have spare one , but they do surface now and again on ebay and amazon

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

Talking of strange sized tables, has anybody ever made a table bigger than a full size (i notice tho that Jim has just mentioned 12' 3") ie, how did thay decide upon the current size, were bigger tables tried out 1st ??

Yes we made a 36ft long table............................................. .........for a bowls test bed in our workshop!

[100-uper]

Found the book but cannot see in it's contents where I read about oversized tables so maybe from another Book .Maybe 100 upper may have read it somewhere too ?

Geoff: You may be recalling this reference which appears in another Thurston pamphlet "The Earlier History of Billiard Tables and Accessories" by Sidney Gillett, page 7 of which states:

Tables above the normal size were also made by Thurston on several occasions, as follows:—On 24th January, 1825, a table shipped to Buenos Ayres was described as "a very superior 14 feet Mahogany Billiard Table—the bed 2 inches in thickness." On the 1st April, 1839, two tables were sent to Mexico, each measuring 15ft. by 6ft. 8in., followed by two more to the same customer on the 17th February, 1841, of the same dimensions. All these tables were, of course, fitted with wood beds. There is no recorded explanation of these unusual sizes."

[Geoff Large]

thanks Peter , I knew I had read it somewhere , only explantation I can think of is one up manship , my tables bigger than youre's etc
and good to explain that they where all wood bed tables , but I guess the date of manufacture give's that away .
I thought it was Mexico but was not sure , on another note I have a Billiards trophy from Chile or buenos ayres Argentina in my collection of odds and sodds of billiard collectables as I call it .
I say Chile or Argentina as they both have Magallanes clubs or ( The British clubs ) these where clubs for high society British poeple working out there .
I am not sure if the German battle ship Graf spee which if I am not mistaken was seeking refuge in buenos ayres or montivideo across the river plate from Argentina in world war two and the BBC commentry was from the Magallanes club which had a water front view of the ship in harbour .
the small silver cup is inscribed .
The British Association of Magallanes ,Billiard Junior Handicap , 1917 winner , John Watson
and has Buenos Ayres on its base and also Mappin and webb who supplied the cup .


One reason that oversized tables realy never took off and we stopped at 12 x 6 ft , is the Cloth width of a standard roll , you would have to have a roll made specific to the width of any oversized table , and the machines of today that manufacture the cloth are just not wide enough .

[ryanah147]

Worked on a table 20 years ago, it was made by OBS (Ontario Billiard Supply) and the slate measured 147" x 76". I had pre-cut my bedcloth before going to the job and ended up glueing one end of the bedcloth to the slate as it was impossible to pull ut over the edge of the slate. Just barely managed to get the middles down but had to staple the sides to the side of the slate linings.

Today I did a B&C on a Sam American Pool table. My cloth was cut to 104" x 57, and the cushion cloths also already cut. Covered the cushions and was ready to put on the bed when I noticed it was dreadfully short. The Sam slate measured 107x57 so I had to leave the bedcloth unfitted until I go back tomorrow with the extra bigger bed................. Not my lucky day eh?

[jrc750]

Surely you measure first then cut ?? Or is it just not practable to cut on site ???

[Geoff Large]

Most buy precutt , and the rolls are heavy so we measure off the roll so not to carry a full roll into the job , especialy if it is upstairs .

we buy all our cloth now precutt , and believe me they do cutt it wrong sometimes , for example we have recieved from cloth supplier

10ft cloth pack in 6811 without the extra two cushion lenths , thats because they get confused with a 9ft , they cutt 9ft 6inch off the roll for a 9ft and that lenth has the cushions in with the full width , when you take a 10ft 6 inch lenth off for the 10ft you have to include an extra 2 cushion lenths as there is only 4 cushion lenths off the side width of the cloth after you have taken the bed cloth out of it . this happend to me the other week on the clulow table .

another thing that they do .
american 9ft cloth kits with cushion widths sepperate , they should allow 18 inch plus the salvage printed edge to get perfect 6 inch width cushion lenths , Iv'e had to make do with 5 and 1/4 inch widths which almost makes for impossible widths for putting on cushions , and when you see the excess on the bed cloth it makes you Mad , it is clear that they are just wharehouse boys who cutt these cloths up into kit's .

Iv'e also had deliverd just bed cloths in a kit that was supposed to have cushion lenths in there as well , and thats from the leading supplier ? they always argue that they sent it . also faults in the cloth and on one instance a cloth with a 1/2 inch cutt in it .
the fault issue used to be realy bad a few years ago with white flecks being visable every foot , We have sent a roll back once and when we enquired about it , they admitted they also had to send back 11 rolls to the manufacturer .
today we have less faults apearing so the quality controll is much better.

[ryanah147]

It loks like Geoff has answered my little problem about short cloths. In saying that however, we had received a call for to cover B&C of 8ft American Pool table, and seeing that I now order 90% of our cloth pre-cut it was just a matter of taking an 8x4 American Pool off the shelf. The client did not say it was an oversized Sam Pool table. Anyway, we went back this morning and fited a 9ft bed to the table (discarding the extra 7" overlap).
With so many different colours available, and with the current recession it makes more sense to order pre-cut rather that have 7 or 8 rolls of different coloured cloths hanging around gathering dust. The only time we would buy in full rolls is when we would do a complete recover in a hall with 8 or more tables.... outside that all our cloth is pre-cut.
In the last few years the quality of cloth has improved a lot. I deal mostly with Hainsworths, and have been for the past 25 years. I would supply the local Pool table operators with 7x4s and other sizes... (the 7x4s being my best seller). In the thousands of cloths I have received from them, I can honestly say that there was never a problem in quality, shade difference, measurement mistakes in pre-cut. I did however have some problems with Milliken with `flecking`and the cloth not tearing straight but that has been resolved now.




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