Karnhem and hillman full size to wales

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

sorry geoff never heard of slate sag before

Sag is not the ideal word to use, the slate actually warps though you will find some billiard companies that state it doesn't which is incorrect. It's not a massive problem however and like timber conditions can dictate whether a slate will warp or not, it's not just down to the fact that the muntins aren't supporting the slates.

[Geoff Large]

Sag is not the ideal word to use, the slate actually warps though you will find some billiard companies that state it doesn't which is incorrect. It's not a massive problem however and like timber conditions can dictate whether a slate will warp or not, it's not just down to the fact that the muntins aren't supporting the slates.

If you where to place an engineers Moore and Wright Steel 6 foot straight edge acroiss the width you can see that it is SAG that is the result of no muntin supporting the centre of the slate , they are not warped on the majority of none supported slate's thay are just sagging with the weiight of the unsupported slate . in most none serious cases a simple adjustable muntin conversion is all that is required to uplift the sag or dished or even concave what ever people will describe a dip in the slate to adjust back out .
By placeing the steel edge across the table you can then see that the centre has daylight and the end edge is touching , these straight edges are for engineering use and cost around £1000 so are very accurate and will show slate sag up on most italian tables made in the boom years of the 80s that have no touching supporting muntin's .
as far as I am aware most billiard fitters and firms use the word to describe sagged , dipped , or dropped slates for a table with balls rolling inwards from each side

We could if we where splitting hairs say the word rerubber is not the ideal word to use , when Cushion stuffing was the first word used
Same for billiard fitter when most call them snooker fitters or Cue sports fitters .

I think Sag describes the problem perfectly , when warped could mean in any direction upwards or downwards ?

[Geoff Large]

Where to in Wales were you Geoff

Blackwood .

[cally]

Ha, had a trip to sunny south wales recently then eh geoff...

Blackwood, only a couple miles from hotpot and I.


Looks a nice setup...

[Ex Enbild Fitter]

If you where to place an engineers Moore and Wright Steel 6 foot straight edge acroiss the width you can see that it is SAG that is the result of no muntin supporting the centre of the slate , they are not warped on the majority of none supported slate's thay are just sagging with the weiight of the unsupported slate . in most none serious cases a simple adjustable muntin conversion is all that is required to uplift the sag or dished or even concave what ever people will describe a dip in the slate to adjust back out .
By placeing the steel edge across the table you can then see that the centre has daylight and the end edge is touching , these straight edges are for engineering use and cost around £1000 so are very accurate and will show slate sag up on most italian tables made in the boom years of the 80s that have no touching supporting muntin's .
as far as I am aware most billiard fitters and firms use the word to describe sagged , dipped , or dropped slates for a table with balls rolling inwards from each side

We could if we where splitting hairs say the word rerubber is not the ideal word to use , when Cushion stuffing was the first word used
Same for billiard fitter when most call them snooker fitters or Cue sports fitters .

I think Sag describes the problem perfectly , when warped could mean in any direction upwards or downwards ?

Each to their own Geoff, different terminology is all it is, not splitting hairs just giving my informed point of view.

[danam1]

Hi Geoff,

You might recall I was looking for a 10 foot table for my neighbour a while back.
He has now got a karnhem and hillman, bukingham.
What would the rough cost be to install and re-cover this table please mate?
ATB
Danny

[Geoff Large]

hi danny if you email me on c.large@btinternet.com I will get you a quote , the price will depend on the Area and if we can link it in with other work when we are down there .

Geoff

[Jono857280]

If you where to place an engineers Moore and Wright Steel 6 foot straight edge acroiss the width you can see that it is SAG that is the result of no muntin supporting the centre of the slate , they are not warped on the majority of none supported slate's thay are just sagging with the weiight of the unsupported slate . in most none serious cases a simple adjustable muntin conversion is all that is required to uplift the sag or dished or even concave what ever people will describe a dip in the slate to adjust back out .
By placeing the steel edge across the table you can then see that the centre has daylight and the end edge is touching , these straight edges are for engineering use and cost around £1000 so are very accurate and will show slate sag up on most italian tables made in the boom years of the 80s that have no touching supporting muntin's .
as far as I am aware most billiard fitters and firms use the word to describe sagged , dipped , or dropped slates for a table with balls rolling inwards from each side

We could if we where splitting hairs say the word rerubber is not the ideal word to use , when Cushion stuffing was the first word used
Same for billiard fitter when most call them snooker fitters or Cue sports fitters .

I think Sag describes the problem perfectly , when warped could mean in any direction upwards or downwards ?

Hi Geoff,
I own a 1989 Westbury BCE. Never figured out why the original muntings (stamped with BCE) are made of pine. Pine is not the toughest of woods.Prone to 'movement' . I replaced mine with Brazillian Mahogany.

Jono

[Geoff Large]

Believe it or not many old billiard tables had inner frame work of deal or scotch pine , only a few billiard manufacturers used solid hard wood throughout the frame , even the outer frame work too on some where not solid hard wood but a softer wood with a venner .
the older tbales had more than 3 centre muntins though some had 6 other's 9 , we have a very old table instock with 12 muntins ,all soft wood .
BUT all wood in those days where dried out for around 5 to 7 years before use , unlike the kiln dried stock they use today .
And the softer wood can contract and expand far too easy with moisture .
so a good conversion over to the mahogany muntins .

Geoff

[Ossie]

Hi Geoff
Do you ever get down South , We have 5 full size snooker tables that are going to need some TLC in a couple of Months time....

[Geoff Large]

yes we do , we are rather busy at the moment with a large job in devon which may take upto two and half weeks rerubbering 14 tables and recovering them plus nets and lethers , also some dismantles and move's etc . (I am at a funeral tommorow then off to Devon on weds .)
then we are in essex , plus fitting in local work inbetween
we also have a fitter who is self employed and works for us on a regular basis , he is located near bournmouth . so if we are not in youre area when you want it doing we can arrange for him to come over .
Let me know the type of work you want doing rerubber / recover/ stretches etc , let me know the quantity and when you want the work to be done and I will get back to you .
you can always reach me on my email ...c.large@btinternet.com

Geoff

[danam1]

Hi Geoff,
what is the the beneffit of the oil filled rads?
Is it purely to heat the slate or is it for stopping damp aswell?
My neighbour is wanting the table fitted asap so is going with the table fitter local to us (thanks for the quote) it is being fitted tomorrow.
His fitter has said the difference of having heat and no heat is minnimal but we are not convinced and would appreciate your views.
Also how long do the heaters need to be on for? Is it ok to have them on a timer coming on once or twice a day?
Thanks for your time
ATB
Danny

[Geoff Large]

If you have no household heating then in this weather you will suffer from condensation and slate sweat , this will result in the cloth feeling damp and in very bad conditions WET to the touch , in this case the heater should be set on 60f on thermostat 24 hours a day , if just for game use then put the rad on a couple of hours before use and turn off 1 hour before leaving the room again at 60F

[bricktip]

Hi Geoff,
I own a 1989 Westbury BCE. Never figured out why the original muntings (stamped with BCE) are made of pine. Pine is not the toughest of woods.Prone to 'movement' . I replaced mine with Brazillian Mahogany.

Jono

Would you mind saying what the serial number is for your table? I'm trying to get a date on mine. I know the slates are from 1987, but i suppose the slates don't necessarily match the frame.

I agree about the muntins, they are too soft and one of mine split. I will get some new harder wood muntins made when i change the cloth