Need advice from experts about buying my first table

[shaun]

Ok guys

I am a beginner, planing to buy my own table, dont want a top class match table like the ones shown in telly, i just want to buy a full size refurbished table.
but once the table is assembled i will not be hiring any fitter within another 3 to 4 years to do any work on it.

Which brands shall i go for ?
BCE? Shender ? Wiraka?

And for durability shall i go for steel block? or rubber?

If i buy grade 10 cloth, will it last me 3 to 4 years?

Cheers

[maryfield]

Avoid Chinese make such as Shender and Wiraka. Poor quality timber and inferior rubber is used in their construction. Central heating will dry out the timbers and warping and cracking can occur. Better to buy a good condition refurbished UK made table such as BCE, Riley, Karnhem Hillman or if your budget allows a Burroughes and Watt. Steel block are a plus point but not essential. New Northern rubbers on a heavy Mahogany or Oak cushion will provide satisfactory bounce. Buy Strachan 6811 Tournament or Hainsworth Smart cloth for durability. No 10 will not last.

[shaun]

Thanks for the tips, i had a feeling there must be a catch with those chinese tables which come cheap even when they are new.

. Steel block are a plus point but not essential.

I read somewhere in TSF that a club owner said, steel block is not a good option if the table is going to be used a lot, because a steel block will need to be recovered if it is being played a lot. and i do practice a lot.
so should i get northern rubber cushions then?

[Deepscrew]

Always ensure the rubber is 'Northern'. Best quality for sure.

Plenty on ebay to look at.

[Sam-Romford]

Always ensure the rubber is 'Northern'. Best quality for sure.

.

I argued with Shaun to get steel block, but if Northern rubber allows the table to last longer without hiring a fitter to recover it we will buy it. the bottom line is we are running a bit low on the budget, and once the table is assembled we just want to practice a lot, look after it well so that we wont have hire a fitter to do some work on it.

So what would be the best table configuration for us, so that the table will last for 3 to 4 years without requiring any refurbishment?

[maryfield]

I have PM`d Shaun with an offer to supply and ship door to door a fully refurbished Karnhem and Hillman `Buckingham table`. The table has had adjustable muntings added to eliminate slate sag. It is also Fitted with New Northern rubbers, new 6811 tournament cloth, new nets and leathers and is supplied with a suite of accessories. This fits your requirements to the letter. Other than general cleaning and maintenance the table will last many years assuming you dont wear the cloth out! I have a

[Geoff Large]

If you use a table often you WILL have to employ a fitter on a regular basis to recover it , saying you want to practice a lot yet want a cloth to last 4 years is just no going to happen , best scenario is 2 years max useing 6811T or hainsworth smart , the thicker cloths are just not out there anymore , gone are the days you played on SLOW Fluffy Cloth as thick as rugs and they lasted 10 years . and you could still use them to recover youth club pool tables after .

Northern rubbber is just the rubber used on the cushions this being wether they are steel block or standard wood body cushions , you keep saying steel cushions or northern rubber cushions ? i think you are confused , a standard cushion is what you should refer to when it has not got steel blocks , the rubber should always be Northern rubber which is the best and will last around 15 to 25 years if not allowed to get cold .

saying you want the cloth to last 4 years and use it often is like driving a car for 20.000 miles a year and expecting the tyres to last 4 years , when in reality 2 to 2.5 years are going to be the max as they only last 40.000 miles if driven kindly .

I would serously think about taking Maryfields offer of the K&hillman buckingham , they are great no nonsense tables and with the upgrade of the adjustable muntins you will be getting a great table , I love working on them and so do most fitters I know , the wood is good not the soft hardwood you get on the chinese made tables , K&Hillman where Bristish made tables .

Did you know by putting away £1 a day for a year is roughly the price for a Recover = £365 , so on that basis say you went in the snooker room every other day and put £1 each in a bottle , after two years you would have £730 to invest on maintanance , make anyone else who turns up for a game also put £1 in the bottle , Snooker tables are not that expensive to look after , i don't realy get why you think you cannot afford to have a recover every two years based on the facts just given ?

a thing you should know about steel block cushions , the middle angles can split way before two years , sometimes within 6 months if used on a regular basis , the only benifit steels give over standard good hardwood tables is around 1/2 to 1 lenth of the table when you throw a ball down it , 4.5 lenths on a standard table 5 to 5.5 lenths on a steel block , they are so overrated . and the cushion surrounding wood often bows or sags where they bolt onto the backs of the steels . ok they do give a differant sound when the ball rebounds off them , but thats just down to the stiffer steel not allowing the vibration to amplifi like wood cushions do . you may also get cue rest jump on the hooks as the ball hits the end cushions , this can be solved by putting rubber tubeing on the hooks . or have frame hooks inplace of cushion hooks .

Geoff

[philip in china]

I understand perfectly what you are saying but get a good fitter to do your initial set up. A bad table well installed will out play a good table badly installed! The best is a good table installed by an expert. The difference between an expert and a cowboy just isn't that much!

Ideally PM one of the fitters on this site and see what they know is available. By doing a private purchase you will at the very least save yourself the VAT!

I am in China and have a Chinese table here. I am currently sourcing a British table for my place in Europe. Do you think there might be a reason for that? Unless you know a lot about the subject steer clear of any table made east of Norwich!

[philip in china]

As I was typing so was Geoff!

What he says is, as always, bang on the money. If you look at the life of a table- your own lifetime and that of your sons, and their sons, really it isn't much. So get a good one and get it installed properly.

[Sam-Romford]

Thank you very much indeed Geoff, a canadian table supplier is offering me a refurbished westbury steel block in good condition.
and i am considering buying it or making a deposit for it. but for durability shall i ask the supplier to give me the same table but replace the steel block cushions with hard wood (oak) cushion? also i am considering buying new 6811T cloth from here.

so Geoff, is it a good idea? can i buy a wesbury steel block but replace the steel block cushions with oak or any other hard wood cushion?

[DeanH]

I understand perfectly what you are saying but get a good fitter to do your initial set up. A bad table well installed will out play a good table badly installed! The best is a good table installed by an expert. The difference between an expert and a cowboy just isn't that much!

I think Philip means the difference in cost is not that much; but the quality of job is great

[DeanH]

also i am considering buying new 6811T cloth from here.

I would recommend that you let the expert fitter supply the cloth, just to be sure
I think that there could be a immediate saving in doing this and definitely a saving in the long run

[Geoff Large]

Why are you importing a table from a Canadian supplier ? surely the shipping costs alone would be a lost revinue , I hate paying VAT for anything myself , but to put added cost of shipping onto a price of a table has me baffled ?
I am not a big fan of BCE westbury's , the none steels are slotted cushions with large square washers , not realy good if you want the best bounce out of a cushion , and unless the frame is oak the table will look awfull having oak cushions on a mahogany frame , I would say the safest bet is the K&hillman table or a riley aristocrat but get a made in england riley if possible , the chinese built Rilys are ok , but the Made in the uk ones are better wood quality , if you want a good second hand table that has a burroughs an watts frame but made in england riley standard cushions i know where one is going for £1250 as aprivate sale , but you would have to pay for assembly of the table and mayb the fiuel for delivery from Lincoln area . it is a sqaure leg but is agood table . and in mint condition Polish wise . he was asking for £1500 fot it but has dropped it to £1250 as he requires the space , but he will not drop it anymore .

here is the link to it http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...ghs+watts+sale

as you can see it is mint condition .

If you have set youre mind on a BCE westbury , the market is flooded with them , many where made in the 1980s/90s some with steel blocks , I am sure some of the table suppliers on here can undercutt any Canadian importer of a BCE refurbished table , and better to get the full deal too , the supplier to set it up in with the deal . I just cannot see how a Canadian suppllier can get even near to a Uk supplier ? also better for the Supplier to supply the cloth too .

having just posted the above JUST FOUND OUT YOU ARE BASED IN THE USA DOOOOOH , the guy from Romford threw me as I thought he knew you and he stated he had agued with you about getting steel blocks so I automaticly thought you where based in Romford .

having just read another thread on where to buy a snooker table in the usa , I see you are based in the usa and maybe are planning to use a snooker table supplier across the border in Canada , I do not know the Market ( not MEERCAT ) in canada so much so have no idea on prices , BCE may have been made under license in Canada , just make sure the fitting is to UK spec and the bed cloth is not STAPLED ON , they should be hand stretched to tension and tacked on only on a Uk Billiard / snooker table , staples are for pool tables , and we see many USA fitted tables with staples fired into the bed cloth linings ??? stapleing is for man made fabric speed cloth not for napped WOOL billiard cloth .

also wool cloth has to be ironed to maintain its speed and accuracy at least once a week , make sure the fitter fills the slate joints with a car body type soft sand or easy sand type filler or plaster of paris , useing wax to fill the slate joints like on pool tables slate is a no go on wool cloth covered billiard/snooker tables , as the heat from any iron will draw the wax upwards into the cloth and the joints will show through the cloth , Iv'e seen this happen .

[Sam-Romford]

having just posted the above JUST FOUND OUT YOU ARE BASED IN THE USA DOOOOOH , the guy from Romford threw me as I thought he knew you and he stated he had agued with you about getting steel blocks so I automaticly thought you where based in Romford .

Shaun lives with me, lol, we both live under the same roof in East london near Romford, hence we bicker a lot, and we are both MOVING to USA....

Anyway i am considering the offer made by Maryfield's offer a refurbished K&hillman delivered to my door for 3000GBP, where the Canadian dealer offered me a Shender, which was only used in a tournament for 10 days, delivered and installed for 5000 canadian dollars which is about £3800.

Just wondering if i go for Maryfields offer, will i get a decent fitter in Michigan who will install it for me?

[Geoff Large]

I would ask around the forum for a Fitter that anyone could recomend near Michigan , my own personal veiw is that USA fitters tend to be Pool table trained and Uk fitters are trained first on Billiard /snooker tables , there is in my opinion a big differance in how each fitter would tackle each others respective tables , Candain fitters may have an edge over a USA fitter although they too fit quite a few american pool tables , just avoid wax in the joints because of the ironing issue , have the bed cloth fitted by 5/8th bed tacks and leave the heads proud for ease of future removal of cloth for stretching and refitting or recovering etc , use as much hardwood shims under the legs before going down to thin card for leveling , and the frame has to be perfect before the slates go on , packing between slate and frame should be a no no , although some may be required for joint shimming . if you feel good about the Canadian fitter but prefer the UK made K&Hillman table then ask how much he would fit youre own table for ? if the differance is an extra few Hundred pounds then it may be worth going for the K&H over the shender .