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  • #16
    Ant147, The word Eureka used on Burroughs and watts name plates ( cushion plates ) refers only to the type of block that the rubber used to sit on within the cushion this was an early vacumm cushion in that there was a long slotted air pocket behind the rubber for what they thought gave a more quite and better bounce , but in real terms it did not give a better bounce , very few tables have these blocks still on them , with billiard firms rerubbering and REBLOCKING the cushions a name plate was put on the cushion to describe the new type or new patent they where useing at the time , so Eureka is a type of cushion not the Name or model of the table , you can actualy read a section in norman clares web site that also gives an illustration of the Eureka cushion , I do on ocasion still come across the slotted Eurka air vacumm cushion and also the ealrier type with air pocket holes rather than the long slot , it's hard to explain but other Fitters on here will have also come across them . I allways ask if they want the cushions leaving as they are or reblocking if it is due for a recover.

    Many billiard firms used differant names on the end plates when rerubbering tables you often see the Arrowflight cushion plate on burroughs and watts , or in the case of the Firm I work for Elston and Hopkin the words Empire Match cushion , thats because we where based in the Old Empire Theatre on Goldsmith street from 1938 . other manufacturers like Thurston used the Adamant Cushion which had a long piece of slate inserted into the wood for extra weight and bounce , there are so many names for differant end plates which can be matched to differant Billiard firms and some firms had more than one patent or cushion name out , and this is where people get confused and think that Eureka is the model name of their table when in fact it is just advertising a rerubber or a new patent of type of cushion . there should have been a makers name plate on the other end cushion but they very rarley gave amodel name for the table on them just the name of the maker .

    some may also claim that the eureka name also refers to steel block cushions as the Eurkas name is also put of the Steel vaccum end plate , but this is wrong as the vaccum blocks are also to be found on standard none steel cushions , in fact I rerubbered on a few weeks ago with the vaccum strip still on the blocks on standard cushions .

    Norman clares web site scroll down and read about the Eureka cushion
    http://www.normanclare.co.uk/Burroughes&Watts.html
    Last edited by Geoff Large; 21 May 2012, 12:34 AM.
    [/SIGPIC]http://www.gclbilliards.com

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    • #17
      Geoff, What does "Arrowflite" on Burroughs & Watts tables mean?
      王可

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      • #18
        you are correct with the spelling on those B&watts cushion plates , I think either someone spelt it wrong and it should be flight , they are referring to the cushion being as true as an Arrow in flight , it's all salesmanship in the day there is another plate around that reads the speedy reliable cushion ,

        before northern rubber the Billiard firms made their own rubber or subcontracted it out , there was around the time of the Arrowflite cushion maybe just before that the rubber was made up of laminated strips , in the form of a L shape but having an angled front edge , before that the rubber was Angled like American pool rubber in the shape of a Triangle , the L shaped rubber is the best for rebound

        the rubber in cushions has been a long term learning curve for the billiard firms and over the years they competed against each other in what they think is the Better Product than their rivals , they therefore put names to the Cushion design of the Rubber or the way it was connected to the Woodwork , like the Permac rubbered cushion , Arrowflite , steel Vacumm cushion , tournament cushion etc .
        It is now illegal under the trades Description act to name a L shape rubber in what they think is a saleable name , as it is also for cues to carry oz stamps on them , Elston and Hopkin last produced a Name plate with Empire Match cushion on it in the 1970s in fact they where old stock from the 60s , they changed it to tournament Cushion in the 1980s but then dropped it all together becuse they had a letter from the Trades Description people saying all these Firms names for the same Quality northern Rubber fastened to the woodwork by glue is Misleading so all that we state today is the cushions are rubbered or fitted with Best Quality British made Northern rubber . I think around the same time Peradon started stamping their cues in H / M / L in place of say 16oz .
        [/SIGPIC]http://www.gclbilliards.com

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        • #19
          Geoff have you seen the RILEY enhanced steel block cushion? As you alluded to in an earlier email to the `Adamant` cushion, (I thought he was nutty singer). We have two tables within our own club which have standard body cushions with a steel block inserted into the body. This increases the weight considerably and they play very much like a steel block table. I can`t recall where I picked them up but a fellow fitter of 50 years B & W trained and with Riley until they folded advised me that it was what Riley brought out to compete with the standard steel block.

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          • #20
            Snooker table goes in

            Geoff, the table was made on the early 1900's it has the carved legs and side rail along with the carved gargoyles covering the leg bolts. Apparently a rare 1. Would you happen to know a price for it. Would be much appreciated.

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            • #21
              I have never seen a riley of vintage make with any steel in the cushion , the adamant cushionw as thurstons design of inserting something heavy inside the cushion make up and this just tucked in behind the rubber Block work giving a sturdy and less sound rebound of the ball from the cushion , the heavy material they used was SLATE , many years later an iRISH FIRM in the 1980s copied the thurston adamant cushion by inserting steel inside them , maybe other firms had a go but I should think just like Burroughs and watts Steel Vacuum cushions had a patent prtecting copyright so did Thurston with the adamant design so around the ealry 1900s any table with an insert other than thursons design would prob still be a pirate copy and the reason why I have not seen any is because they only made a few , maybe youre's is a prototype that was stopped going into production because of thurstons Patent ? ,

              Ant 147 if you post a photo of the table you have I may be able to give a guide to it's value , but there are many tables on the market at the moment which keeps prices low , if there where not so many , prices would be high as demand outsrtips supply , as for heavy carved tables , again the modern house would prob go for something in light wood and contempary in design , believe it or not Square legs are not so unpopular as people think , we have a very heavy carved almost gothic looking George wright in dark mahogany , and at a bargain price of around £7000 , but we just cannot shift it . we sell plenty of sqaure legs in contempary design and the riley aristocrat or Karnhem and hillman turned leg tables sell well .
              in terms of Riley tables the firm is not as old as you would think , they where formed around 1890 but not as a full Billiard table manufacturer , they manufactured cricket bats and supplied sports equipment , lets say at around this time they where a sports shop supplier , it was not until around the late 1890s early 1900s that they started in earnest to make full sized tables , so when you look at other firms such as thurston or George wright and stevens even Palmers they predate riley by upto 60 to 90 years or so , I always find it strange that Riley would end up as the major name in Billiards and snooker when they started at such a late date . and other firms with higher credentials end up being either bought out or because of the war's end production .

              Geoff
              Last edited by Geoff Large; 24 May 2012, 05:50 PM.
              [/SIGPIC]http://www.gclbilliards.com

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              • #22
                Geoff the two Riley tables are modern Aristocrats. 1980`s. It is exactly like a standard Riley cushion with the added steel insert. Next time I recover it I will take pictures. Its the only two like this that I have seen.

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                • #23
                  Conway Bros of ireland did this long steel block insert it was rather crude though and they did not underlap the rubber block like thurston did , I do come across them now and again , yes please post a photo of the riley cushion as i have never seen them on those tables.
                  [/SIGPIC]http://www.gclbilliards.com

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                  • #24
                    I can imagine. My problem is when I go to the club I have to pay for the offer they have which is 6hours for £8 so I'm stuck there for a while. When there is nobody in practicing on my own becomes boring so having a table at home where you can take a quick 20min break and come back to a top-notch table would be quite brilliant. Would be a laugh to get a few friends round when the footy is on and have a few frames as well. I would my snooker room a proper 'man cave' :P

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                    • #25
                      Snooker table goes in

                      Geoff, the only guide for a price is that the same table was in a auction in Christies on London with a guide price of £25,000 but this was 15 years ago. Haven't wrote enough posts to post pictures yet. If you have a email address I can send them

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                      • #26
                        any Photo's send to c.large@btinternet.com , title them photo's of snooker tables SNOOKER FORUM and who they are from .

                        Geoff
                        [/SIGPIC]http://www.gclbilliards.com

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