STAR Table TEMPLATES

[hsn]

Very interesting thread. There must star table pocket template drawings now!
I am an AutoCad user and software license owner. I can make 2D and even 3D CAD Digital Drawings of any image, paper drawing or data. I'd love to do it for free and post them here.

Please post the required data.

[Terry Davidson]

hsn:

I have drawing of all the types of templates with the exception of the Star. As there are around 20 drawings it's a little difficult to post them up here but if you email 'terrydavidson45(at)gmail(dot)com' I will email you back the drawing I have and you can see what you can do with them.

I already have a set of the IBSF templates although I have my table cut to the WPBSA drawings as I find the IBSF templates are not very good.

Terry

[syed18616]

Hi Terry,
Is there any way you can share the templates with me. I would love to have Tournament size pockets. My email is nomair1 (at) gmail (dot) com

Thanks again
syed

[mikee]

The pocket templates are not governed by Star ,they just use their tables and the WPBSA decide on the cut ,one make of modern steel block table (post 1980 ) is the same as another .It was around 1991 that the pockets were slightly tightened up and the shape also changed from a rounder cut to a more sharper flat cut ,you can even see this if you look at old footage from the 80’s of a player looking down his cue into an open pocket .I have a set of official pocket templates from 2006/7 season and my table is set up just slightly easier ,but not by much ,maybe one and half millimetres or there abouts.Having you’re table set up bang on to match templates is fine ,but as the bed cloth and cushion cloth wears balls may start rattling more or spitting out ,not something the pro’s have worry about as the cloths are changed every three days ,so they are used to permanently playing with cushion slide and balls sliding in of the jaws more than we are .

[vmax]

The pocket templates are not governed by Star ,they just use their tables and the WPBSA decide on the cut ,one make of modern steel block table (post 1980 ) is the same as another .It was around 1991 that the pockets were slightly tightened up and the shape also changed from a rounder cut to a more sharper flat cut ,you can even see this if you look at old footage from the 80’s of a player looking down his cue into an open pocket .I have a set of official pocket templates from 2006/7 season and my table is set up just slightly easier ,but not by much ,maybe one and half millimetres or there abouts.Having you’re table set up bang on to match templates is fine ,but as the bed cloth and cushion cloth wears balls may start rattling more or spitting out ,not something the pro’s have worry about as the cloths are changed every three days ,so they are used to permanently playing with cushion slide and balls sliding in of the jaws more than we are .

The square cut pocket accepts balls near the cushion easier than the round cut pocket, you only have to watch US 9 ball to see that. As for new cloth slide off the jaws, that may be true for the likes of us in the club on a cloth with thicker nap but the pros use cloths with a very fine nap and unless the cushions are covered with a thicker napped cloth than the bed of the table I don't see cushion slide as the reason why balls drop more easily for them than it does for us.
For me it's the cut of the pocket from the fall of the slate to the back of the pocket that matters more, the width can be the same but a round cut deflects the ball across the pocket and the square cut deflects the ball into the pocket. An old billiard table with the original round cut pockets is a devil to play snooker on, the match table in our club is one and a fifty break on that is quite an accomplishment.

syed18616

I don't think Terry is active on the forum anymore, he had serious health issues a few years ago and hasn't posted anything since then.

[mikee]

The old billiard tables had slightly longer cushions which meant the pocket couldn’t have a uniform size from the opening to the back of the plate ,it narrows down ,this makes shots on or near the cushion near impossible with pace .We used to have to play league games years ago in an old club on one of these tables ,we hated going there a couple of times a year ,it was an old Riley imperial in oak and was a bitch to play snooker on .That table has gone to another club now and has had the cushions cut down and new wider brass pocket plates fitted ,that table is fantastic to play on now .All club owners should spend some cash and sort those old billiard tables out with new or cut down cushions as they do nothing for your game apart from depress you ,these tables were not made for snooker ,snookers a potting game that’s hard enough anyway .

[Danger Steve]

Can’t speak for Hainsworth cloths, but I can tell you both the Superfine and 6811 Tournament cloths both have quite a bit of slide from new! The Superfine does have a thin nap but the cloths come with a protective coating on them that gives them that shine and slippery feel.

I believe now on the Star TV tables they fit No.10 as the bed cloth and 6811 Tournament to the cushions… Probably because it gives them more slide into the pockets?

Don’t forget most clubs also have undercut pocket rubbers which makes them slightly more generous.

[vmax]

The old billiard tables had slightly longer cushions which meant the pocket couldn’t have a uniform size from the opening to the back of the plate ,it narrows down ,this makes shots on or near the cushion near impossible with pace .We used to have to play league games years ago in an old club on one of these tables ,we hated going there a couple of times a year ,it was an old Riley imperial in oak and was a bitch to play snooker on .That table has gone to another club now and has had the cushions cut down and new wider brass pocket plates fitted ,that table is fantastic to play on now .All club owners should spend some cash and sort those old billiard tables out with new or cut down cushions as they do nothing for your game apart from depress you ,these tables were not made for snooker ,snookers a potting game that’s hard enough anyway .

I remember when our match table had new cushions fitted about twenty years ago. The fitter couldn't get his BSCC templates into the pocket openings and the club secretary insisted that the new pocket openings were the same size as the old ones for home team advantage. He did his best to copy them but the pockets ended up slightly easier in regards to balls along the cushion. The old pocket opening meant that a four ball plant tight against the top cushion would only pot at pocket weight, any harder and it wobbled and stayed out whereas now the same shot will pot at speed. The four ball plant means that it has to be perfectly struck for the fourth ball to hug the cushion, anything even slightly out means it won't pot, even the black off it's spot won't go off the far jaw like on pro tables and any slight touch on the near jaw means it stays out even with a new cloth.
It's a pig to play on for sure but I made my highest break on it before the new cushions were fitted, an 86, missed the last red, which was two feet from the corner pocket, a 1/4 inch off the top cushion, cue ball between black and pinks spots, at pocket weight when it touched the near jaw, perfectly on the blue to stun up for the yellow with all colours on their spots, gutted I left that red 'til last otherwise it would have been a 16.

Like you say it does nothing for your game but to realise that balls on or near the cushion aren't an option at pace if you want to continue your break and it becomes a shot that you don't learn.

[mikee]

Your dead right Vmax ,a four ball plant shot tight on the cushion is a great indicator for testing a tables acceptance of shots ,my table swallows them without even a rattle and even though the match pockets look small they are quite accommodating,it’s just visually they look tight and the middles are nippy .I don’t have any undercut on the rubber nose so compared to a club table it’s tougher for sure ,but fair .When I read Alex Higgins book there was an instance when he was playing an exhibition in Jamaica ( yeah strange but true) and the table was one of the tightest and toughest tables he had played on ,no air con and humid sticky conditions ,he made a 128 break in one frame ,so if your good your good ,and there would be no doubt he played to the conditions he was faced with that night .The pro’s these days have perfect conditions ,more so than any previous times .

[vmax]

Your dead right Vmax ,a four ball plant shot tight on the cushion is a great indicator for testing a tables acceptance of shots ,my table swallows them without even a rattle and even though the match pockets look small they are quite accommodating,it’s just visually they look tight and the middles are nippy .I don’t have any undercut on the rubber nose so compared to a club table it’s tougher for sure ,but fair .When I read Alex Higgins book there was an instance when he was playing an exhibition in Jamaica ( yeah strange but true) and the table was one of the tightest and toughest tables he had played on ,no air con and humid sticky conditions ,he made a 128 break in one frame ,so if your good your good ,and there would be no doubt he played to the conditions he was faced with that night .The pro’s these days have perfect conditions ,more so than any previous times .

Alex Higgins was the last of the generation who were raised on billiard tables as there was no pro tour during that time, that's why so many of them had short cue actions for better accuracy and used side spin far more for position as they couldn't just whack them in with stun like they can now. In Fred Davis' book he relates the change from billiard cut to snooker cut occurred around 1969 when the game went pro once again and the WPBSA, or whoever was in charge at that time, wanted the game to be more attractive to a paying audience who were there to see potting and break building and not endless bouts of safety on tight pocket tables.
This of course was the standard for all new tables, and in the boom of the 80's they got a little too big, but the old social club tables took a long time to catch up, some still haven't done so.
When one comes across a table such as this it should be a real eye opener as to what the old pros had to deal with and this argument that the modern generation is better should be put into context especially now that modern conditions have had to improve drastically to make the phenolic resin balls work as well as the old super crystalates.

[mikee]

I agree with all the above ,and about the pockets being bigger in the 80’s ,if you look at Alex Higgins legendary 69 break to get to the final in 82 ,a couple of those shots wouldn’t go in now ,but the cloths were slower then too .The game has got a bit easier now with these slick cloths as everyone can move the ball all over the table ,with the supers and heavier cloths you were at an advantage with cue power ,now everyone has it .Golfers and tennis players have to adapt to different conditions ,snookers to much same old same old now .Bring out a ball that is more flexible to different conditions and vary the playing surfaces a bit more ,it can’t be that hard to do .

[vmax]

Golfers and tennis players have to adapt to different conditions ,snookers to much same old same old now .Bring out a ball that is more flexible to different conditions and vary the playing surfaces a bit more ,it can’t be that hard to do .

Just turn the heaters off and leave the windows open

[philip in china]

I have air conditioning in my snooker room. It works well.

[Mustifa]

I do have mechanical drawings of the WPBSA, B&SCC and IBSF templates which I can email to anyone who wants them although I'll have to find them on this computer first. I did email out a bunch about a year ago to different people

Terry

Hi Terry, is it still possible for me to get the templates off of you, thanking you kindly.

mustifashah@hotmail.com

[DeanH]

Hi Terry, is it still possible for me to get the templates off of you, thanking you kindly.

mustifashah@hotmail.com

FYI - Terry does not visit TSF anymore due to health issues.
I have the same files and can send them to you if you wish.