Who built this table?

[herbie]

Last year I bought a "BCE steel block" full size snooker table. I googled BCE but I was not able to find out who built my snooker table. Does anybody know the answer? If necessary I can make more photos of details.

[herbie]

It has adjustable legs!

[philip in china]

Nice looking table and room. Now watch your game improve!

Somebody on the forum will let you have the answer.

[DeanH]

Very nice setup you have there, not sure about the curtains though

[Terry Davidson]

herbie:

I have a BCE Westbury steel-blocked and your table looks identical to mine. On mine, under one of the rails it says 'Pot Black - 1969, so I'm pretty sure it's a genuine BCE and I believe yours is too, that is 'Made by BCE'. (I think it originally meant 'British Coin Equipment' if I'm not mistaken)

The only difference I see are the levelers on the base of the legs but I assume those are an add-on that came later

Terry

[NorthWestJunior]

Would just like to compliment your set-up. Looks great, have fun!

[herbie]

Thank you very much, Terry Davidson! Finally I understand the abbreviation BCE!

To the others: Thank you, but it is only to show the table. I surely don't watch the curtain while I play! It was free.

Ha! Finally I have the "edit" function available!

[Geoff Large]

They are not BCE pocket plates , more like the riley two pin type standard broad bow , they are not the Riley match pocket plates which have a much larger area of brass and therefore a larger leather , the BCE pocket plates and leathers are extra extra broad bow.

The table has the BCE routing design on the end frame panel between the legs , those legs ? not what I would say are typical BCE turned legs ? and yes BCE is Bristol Coin Equipment a name they used in the 70s and 80s . dropped to just BCE .

I think BCE now own the riley trade mark as it is registered in Bristol , if so then just maybe the design you have is part Riley part BCE . for a steel block though the pocket plates are a little restrictive , having the original BCE or the match riley plates would be an improvement
the adjustable legs are ok though as it hides any toe shim pieces that would have to be put under the legs if they where fixed none adjustable type .

one question , has it got adjustable muntins , thats the wood supporting the slate in the centre there should be three of them , have they got bolts at each end of them on a metal bracket ? you just screw them up to take any deflection ( dip or bow ) in the slate out .

[Terry Davidson]

Of course, as an expert fitter, Geoff is quite correct. On my BCE Westbury my pocket plates are much wider on top near the edges of the rail and actually meet the rails with no gaps or indents.

My legs are the same shape and so is the design on the end frame panel.

I haven't checked mine for the 'adjustable muntins' as I never knew they existed and I don't think the fitter that first erected the table knew about them (he was trained by Riley originally though). I'm going to check with a flashlight first thing in the morning tomorrow as I believe a couple of my slates, #2 and #4 may have slight bows in them as I have a small weird roll in those two areas.

Thanks Geoff!

Terry

[philip in china]

You must have eyes like a lynx!

They are not BCE pocket plates , more like the riley two pin type standard broad bow , they are not the Riley match pocket plates which have a much larger area of brass and therefore a larger leather , the BCE pocket plates and leathers are extra extra broad bow.

The table has the BCE routing design on the end frame panel between the legs , those legs ? not what I would say are typical BCE turned legs ? and yes BCE is Bristol Coin Equipment a name they used in the 70s and 80s . dropped to just BCE .

I think BCE now own the riley trade mark as it is registered in Bristol , if so then just maybe the design you have is part Riley part BCE . for a steel block though the pocket plates are a little restrictive , having the original BCE or the match riley plates would be an improvement
the adjustable legs are ok though as it hides any toe shim pieces that would have to be put under the legs if they where fixed none adjustable type .

one question , has it got adjustable muntins , thats the wood supporting the slate in the centre there should be three of them , have they got bolts at each end of them on a metal bracket ? you just screw them up to take any deflection ( dip or bow ) in the slate out .

[bricktip]

The end panel is Westbury style, but maybe just a similar style, not necessarily a Westbury. The wide pocket plates (which this one doesn't have) are a feature of the Westbury in my opinion, and one of the main reasons i wanted one.

As long as it plays well though, a table is a table is a table

Edit:
@Terry - Looking at your table pics on your messy room thread your legs are not the same as those here. You have standard Westbury legs the same as mine.

[herbie]

Thank you, Geoff Large, for answering this thread! (What a quick reward for visiting your table fitting homepage ) In your post I find two expressions which are difficult for a non native english speaker: pocket plate and muntin.
There is one thing I don't like about my middle pockets: the balls hit the wood because it goes further inside than the cloth-covered part. I don't know if this is meant to be like that or if it is a result of bad work of my german table fitter. I show you three photos which I made this morning:

middlepocketttsq8.jpg

tablebottom26sud.jpg

muntinn7sk9.jpg
Is this the muntin you talked about?

Oh, there is one other thing that should not be: the right black pocket is 10 mm wider than the left black pocket! That's a big difference.

[philip in china]

Geoff will be back to you on these and there is nobody better than Geoff!

I think "Muntin" is a specific snooker term so don't expect to find it in a general dictionary although "mounting" as a noun probably is and I imagine that that is where it has its root. They are the wooden cross members that support the slates. Adjustable hardwood ones = good, non adjustable softwood ones = bad.

The difference in pocket size must be due to bad workmanship I would think but you should be able to loosen the bolts and slide the whole thing over. How are those pockets in comparison to the pockets at the baulk end?

By the way your English is so good I didn't realise you were not a native English speaker.

Thank you, Geoff Large, for answering this thread! (What a quick reward for visiting your table fitting homepage ) In your post I find two expressions which are difficult for a non native english speaker: pocket plate and muntin.
There is one thing I don't like about my middle pockets: the balls hit the wood because it goes further inside than the cloth-covered part. I don't know if this is meant to be like that or if it is a result of bad work of my german table fitter. I show you three photos which I made this morning:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11641[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11642[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11643[/ATTACH]
Is this the muntin you talked about?

Oh, there is one other thing that should not be: the right black pocket is 10 mm wider than the left black pocket! That's a big difference.

[herbie]

Well I have been speaking English a lot for 50 years but I am German.

[Geoff Large]

[QUOTE=herbie;664712]Thank you, Geoff Large, for answering this thread! (What a quick reward for visiting your table fitting homepage ) In your post I find two expressions which are difficult for a non native english speaker: pocket plate and muntin.
There is one thing I don't like about my middle pockets: the balls hit the wood because it goes further inside than the cloth-covered part. I don't know if this is meant to be like that or if it is a result of bad work of my german table fitter. I show you three photos which I made this morning:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REPLY

The pocket plate is the metal under the leather , looking at the middle pocket plate I think I am seeing alloy not brass just to the side of the leather ? this is weaker than brass and will break if hit too hard with a ball , I described the shape of the leather as broad bow and reffered to the plate as being a two pin type , this may have the bolt up type , they did both for the broad bow leather ,now there is only one manufacturer that I know who used alloy plates and that was Karnhem and Hillman .

Looking underneath the table the smaller pieces of wood are the Muntins , these can be floating adjustable bracket type or fixed type , youres are Fixed type , they should touch the slate and have no gap , thus supporting the slate from sagging , or Concave due to no support underneath .
the slate looks like it is Italian , they are light grey . but they could also be Chinese or Brazilian or even Potugese , the wood protrudeing past the steel blocks , these can be made better on the next recover , by extending the end tack block slightly so that they come level with the End of the woodwork , with steels you do get a gap from the cloth wraparound to the beginning of the leather , a Ball can hit and nibble away at this wood , and this is the flaw with steel block cushions , if they try and bring the pocket plate nearer , you get ball spin off the plate leather and the pocket rejects the ball . this is something all steel block table owners have to live with .
On tv the tables are Brand new for each tournament and in the small time frame of each tv tournament they are never going to show the nibble / ball impact damage , when a table is used for much longer periods, then that is when the nibble or ball impact damage will start to appear .

The wood used in youre table is hard wood includeing the muntins and the cross members , so you should have a stable table , but they only have one bolt through each leg , when two would have made a much more sturdy frame without any posibilty of table leg wobble , I think from memory 1970s/80s BCE westburys had two bolts .