Who built this table?

[throtts]

Your site looks great, Geoff. Just had a browse.

[DandyA]

deleted ... talking rhubarb!

[Geoff Large]

deleted ... talking rhubarb!

No I do understand that brass is an alloy and you are correct in saying that both brass and alluiminium are an alloy , I should have said aluminium , but people will get my drift of what I meant .
You can also get gold colours that are alloy such as rose gold or white gold.

[DandyA]

No I do understand that brass is an alloy and you are correct in saying that both brass and alluiminium are an alloy , I should have said aluminium , but people will get my drift of what I meant .
You can also get gold colours that are alloy such as rose gold or white gold.

hee-hee Geoff, it sounds like you saw my post before I deleted it LOL ... I realised I was talking rhubarb cos you said "an alloy not brass" which can be read as "an alloy but not a brass [alloy]" so you were totally correct in the first place ...

for the record, as I'm sure you know, brass is an alloy of the elements copper and zinc ... aluminium is an element although there are alloys of it ... and indeed, we never see pure aluminium, it's pretty reactive and oxidises in a few seconds in air I believe ...

[philip in china]

In a lot of trades aluminium alloys are referred to just as "alloy". It is colloquial use. As a blacksmith I refer to "carbon" steel. All steel has carbon in it but to a blacksmith it means steel which has no alloy metals in it- just carbon- so no tungsten or nickel or whatever.

Some things must be so difficult for non native speakers!

[bricktip]

I'm still non the wiser as to what table this is. It is not a BCE Westbury, so what is it?

[philip in china]

Maybe it's like the old motorbikes where a norton frame with a Triumph engine was a Triton. Who can think of a suitable name for this one?

I'm still non the wiser as to what table this is. It is not a BCE Westbury, so what is it?

[Geoff Large]

I'm still non the wiser as to what table this is. It is not a BCE Westbury, so what is it?

an hybrid , BCE frame riley type alloy pocket plates or burroughs and watts designed alloy pocket plates , or maybe a copy , ?
are they old steel block cushions like burroughs and watts or modern , if you can take off one side wood surround and look at the metal for any sign of burroughs and watts . or evidence that the steels have been redrilled out for modern slates , in old steels there would be 5 slots for the cushion bolts in modern 6 slots or holes , in modern steels they tend to put smaller slots or wider holes for the cushion bolts rather than long slots.

I have seen many copies of the BCE routed design inlay on the side frame ,
has it got a BCE badge on it anywhere ? BCE used to put self adesive plaques on each end cushion with large BCE letters on them , they where a swine to get off , but an hair dryer used to work ok .

Herbie , who informed you it was a BCE ?

Herbie the right pocket being 10mm wider than the other , this can be sorted easy , by taking off the woodwork of the end cushion ,ther amybe pocket plate bolts or screws to take off too , slacken the steel cushion bolts off , and tap the cushion 5 mm the other way , tighten the end cushgion bolts , check with a tape measure , and keep adjusting until they are both the same , then retighten all the bolts and replace the wood work , making sure the cappings are level with the top of the cushions .
Youre fitter should have made sure the pockets where equal , even on a standard table I do this as there is around 1/8th play in the bolt holes left or right .

this is what a burroughs and watts stamp looks like on the back of the steel blocks

[philip in china]

I supoose you see quite a few hybrids do you Geoff

[Geoff Large]

Yes and copies , there where a flood of BCE copies around in the late 80s , in my local club there is a square leg BCE complete with BCE badges , but it was made in Manchester and sold through Daymoat as I have worked on these table before , it was prob a third party who put the BCE plate on though not Daymoat.

there are certain types of pocket plates than you can identify specific manufacturers with , I have for example seen orme & sons frame with riley or burroughs and watts cushions on , or a riley table with orme slates on it , one give away for a hybrid table is to inspect the cushion bolt holes for signs of a plug up and redrill out for differant cushions , but this can also be true for older type cushions haveing modern smaller rubber blocks fitted these would be pre circa 1880s/90s . possibly around 1870s type blocks which where much larger and differant rubber was used in those days.

it is always best if possible to keep the originalty of any table if possible , but modern play sometimes forces the hand to alter .

I have for instance at this moment an enquiry to alter some pocket plates on a very old table pre 1890s , this will require filing in the top plate rebate with solid mahogany to match existing , a total strip and repolish of entire cushion refit with two pin or bolt up pocket plate , depth of wood cushion capping will restrict what type I can fit , re rubber and also supply new cushion buttons, also move the table and set it up in a new location and recover , plus nets leathers and new brass ball rails .

by doing this I will keep the original cushions on the table , the cushions wood work are in very good condition ,

On the other hand I have also quoted for another job to replace the cushions which are also top plate with another second hand Riley set, complete with new two pin plates nets leathers etc , these will have to be plugged and redrilled to fit the slates of the table , this will then make the table an hybrid . the old cushions and pocket plates on this table are rough so to hybrid it with second hand cushions was the correct choice . making league snooker a real posibility now , with the old cushions the league was not going to recommend the club .

nothing wrong with an hybrid table if the work is done correct , I have seen some very bad workmanship though where the fitter has not plugged up the old bolt holes and just hacked away at the new holes which are right next to the old ones with a drill and placed a very large washer in to try and get the cushon tight up against the slate , then hide every thing behind a slide in or screw on panel . the fitter who did it knows I have seen the work as the club in question has now just scrapped the entire table and replaced it with a karnhem and hillman .

[philip in china]

Quite a bit of work there then, Geoff. I hope you get the jobs.



I have for instance at this moment an enquiry to alter some pocket plates on a very old table pre 1890s , this will require filing in the top plate rebate with solid mahogany to match existing , a total strip and repolish of entire cushion refit with two pin or bolt up pocket plate , depth of wood cushion capping will restrict what type I can fit , re rubber and also supply new cushion buttons, also move the table and set it up in a new location and recover , plus nets leathers and new brass ball rails .

by doing this I will keep the original cushions on the table , the cushions wood work are in very good condition ,

On the other hand I have also quoted for another job to replace the cushions which are also top plate with another second hand Riley set, complete with new two pin plates nets leathers etc , these will have to be plugged and redrilled to fit the slates of the table , this will then make the table an hybrid . the old cushions and pocket plates on this table are rough so to hybrid it with second hand cushions was the correct choice . making league snooker a real posibility now , with the old cushions the league was not going to recommend the club .

[herbie]

Thank you for your answers, Geoff Large. You are asking "Herbie , who informed you it was a BCE ?"

That's how these tables are named on the table offers website of snookerservice.de: http://www.snookerservice.de/tische.html (scroll down to the bottom)
There is no badge nowhere. I checked this before I started this thread.
As soon as possible I'll check this back side of the steel blocks. You know the arrival and building up of this table was an unbelievable story... The man brought the table on a hanger and followed his navigation system. His journey ended in a big ditch in a big acre. Night, November ... He could not move back or forth...
I regretted that I gave him the job because the table suffered a lot of transport damage and damage from spending a night in the acre at total fog and minus 2 degrees Celsius. It was wet and frozen. Two days later the building up was finished and I had to concentrate on remaining calm all the time because this man did so much stupid stuff and I was the one who paid the bill.

[herbie]

I want to reactivate this thread because I really would like to know whether or not there are any other snooker tables here in my region, west Hungary Zala county (Zala megye). If any snooker fans from Hungary read this I would be glad about informations.
I have been living here in Hungary now for six years but I could not yet find some other player to play with me. In July I met a bike traveller from Scotland in the supermarket and he and his lady friend stayed overnight in my house. But even he wasn't a snookerplayer...

[philip in china]

You are the wrong side of Hungary to be near me.

[herbie]

The east side is only 0,02 % nearer...