big pocket's or small pockets ?

[tedisbill]

big pocket's or small pockets ?

I've always said, anxiety on the shot is a huge factor in people missing shots. It causes all kinds of errors to creep in. Jumping up on the shot, bottling the potting angle, not hitting through the ball.

That's why I think big pockets when you're struggling are important.

If someone is flying, it doesn't matter because they're striking the ball so well anyway. Also, as Terry has pointed out, the art is never actually having a tough pot anyway, so the table shouldn't matter.

[pottr]

I have to be honest here. I really don't mind. Like Caz says, you should aim for the middle of the bag anyway and I'm yet to see a table that won't allow a ball hit dead centre.

In matches, I always play on the tightest tables possible, because I know that I can cue the ball properly whilst the majority can't.
There are a lot of players in local leagues with over inflated opinions of their own snooker prowess because they've only ever played on buckets.

On the flipside, my highest break was made on a table with big pockets and I have made three tons in three frames on the same table before so I may be talking a touch hypocritical.

I find it harder to get up for playing a game on a table with bigger pockets and find myself trying to pot everything a lot rather than keeping the white on a shoestring.

I am set in my belief that balls down the cushion are mainly to do with how well you strike the white rather than sheer pocket size.

In the Atack Snooker club where I play they have 5 match tables which are all tight bar one. That is my least favourite but it is always booked out.

[ace man]

pocket_middle.jpgpocket_corner.jpg

This is what I usually play on. What do you think guys? Too easy? I find it ok except perhaps that middle bag is a little too hard for me, but oh well...

As far as making some kind of personal record breaks for me it doesn't matter what pockets look like. It is all about how I feel at that particular moment. If I'm relaxed and feeling well, playing decent position, then a 50 is very likely. However, if I'm nervous, lacking in confidence, making constant errors in positioning, than highest break is about 6 and even the biggest pocket US pool table couldn't help much with potting.

[pottr]

Those pockets are quite generous for sure, but by no means the biggest you'll come across.

[cazmac1]

one of the reasons I started the thread was to focus on cuing accuracy farther than just pocket size if that makes any sense. what I mean is on a generous table you might be able to get away with cueing badly or picking the pot slightly off. This can lead you into a false sense of security and mask faults with your game. This is what I found out when changing table after joining my new club. The table is playable and I've had some decent breaks, but any error is punished you need 100% focus on all shots. I have never really felt like practising for a long time but this table has laid down a challenge to me and I want to master the table and not let it beat me. I think I've already improved my cue alinement by changing a few things but there's a long way to go yet.
I think all players aim at the pocket slightly different, if you watch ROS play he shaves the near knuckle so he gives the ball every chance to go in. Then if you watch SD these days he will use the far knuckle to bounce the pot in. This is where a lot of players fall down if you get use to this in the way I have you will get caught out on a tight table. There is also the matter of actually hitting the ball where you intend. say for instance you are cuing ever so slightly across the ball or adding side you could get away with it on big pockets but when you play on a tight table you won't. So your not even aware of your faults.
I agree there is a time for just banging them in on a loose table's but I have now formed the opinion that for practice tight is better.
Ace man, it might help if you move those reds out of the way.lo

[Geoff Large]

Middle pocket openings are governed by the width of the pocket plate , on steel blocks the distance is normaly 3.3/8ths between the cushions , on standard tables a two pin pocket plate is 3.5 inch , add to this cloth wrap around of the cushion end , and you will end up with around 3.5 to 3.5/8ths wide pocket .
Standard riley Aristocrats are normaly 3.5 inch at the drop for corner pocets and 3.5 to 3.5/8ths gap on the middle cushions , in this instance you can only use the template as a referance to the shape of the curve , not a true fit of the template , which is why I always state those templates are for steel block cushions only .
Have a look at this very nice Oak riley Aristocrat , the pockets are cutt so that they are 3.5 inch in the corner at the point of drop and the centre pocket gap between the pocket plate is also 3.5 inch , this I think is the best measurement for Good players , for club tables i would consider making the corner pockets 3.5/8th at the drop .
This oak Riley standard cushion table is used by some of the top ametuer snooker players in the east Midlands .
The owner had been thinking of replaceing the cushions with steel block cushions , but is delighted with how the table plays he is now not bothering. the original firm who set the table up had missed bolts out of the slate , these had just fell out during transport , so when I Rerubbered and recovered it , I also inserted new bolt studs inside the slate.

[narl]

big pocket's or small pockets ?

Is it standard for tables to have that little groove at the fall off? There's a few tables in the club I play and they seem to have these on specific pockets. One table has the groove (or ramp as we call it) at the right hand middle pocket but not on the left side of the table. Seems to govern wether you get a pot to the middle quite a bit as the ball can't really perch on it if you're rolling the shot, whereas on the other side of the table there's no such groove and you could easily get the ball on the edge without it falling in. The one on this table seems a bit more extreme than in that pic as well, have to try and get a pic tonight.

[Geoff Large]

If you mean the rounded off slate at the fall , that is because the smoother round is the better for the cloth wear, if sharper rounding off is done the cloth would split open , it is common with bounce back at the middle fall , for the cloth to get worn out faster than a corner pocket where the pocket plate at the corner is further back than a middle pocket plate and leather.

if you have an uneven fall as you are describing , then the slate would require refilling with a car body filler and re shapeing at the fall , making sure it is all the same and done to a made up template , the other side should also be made to the same template . you may have sufferd slate shale at the centre pocket and some lazy Speed fitter has just sanded one side of the damage down , so you have an uneven slate fall , one side that is sanded away to smooth the damage out , the other side untouched .

Under cutt of the rubber is also a key factor when potting balls in the centre pocket , a good undercutt may allow the curve of the ball to enter closer to the cushion rather than a none undercutt which makes the pocket much harder to pocket a ball in .
Undercutt though if done too extreme can cause two things , excessive tracking on the cloth , and also rubber bend over when the cloth is fitted because you have taken all the body of the under part of the rubber away.
I always HAND rasp and sand the undercutt for a smoother finnish , many fitters just cutt the rubber and leave it unsanded , this can cause the cloth to split , believe it or not sharp rubber will cutt through the cloth when it is hit by the ball .

the centre falls on this set of slates where done by Riley when the table was manufactured or to riley spec at the slate quarry in Italy , older slates do tend to have sharper rounded falls and therefore split the cloth easy . the old tables where designed for Billiards not snooker ,over the years modifications to tables have been made as snooker became the popular game

[cazmac1]

Hi Geoff, always nice to here from a true pro. Did you manage to call my club?

[ADR147]

personally i don't think it matters much. an honest table ie no rolls, good bounce from the cushions and a decent quick cloth matter much more. the tables i hate are the ones in clubs where you have to pot the black off the spot like a pool break in order to get the red to come off the bottom cushion high enough for the next red.

[Geoff Large]

Hi Geoff, always nice to here from a true pro. Did you manage to call my club?

No Peter after a bit of thought , for one table it is not going to work , 6 hours traveling for one recover , no suitable place to park outside the club for a LWB van , but if they require info for a fitter down their way give them my contact details, I will then recommend a Fitter who lives on the south coast who can hit london in 1 hour and he also has a girlfreind at Luton where he often stays. so less than half the time it would take me to get there .

many thanks for contacting me though.

Geoff

[cazmac1]

No Peter after a bit of thought , for one table it is not going to work , 6 hours traveling for one recover , no suitable place to park outside the club for a LWB van , but if they require info for a fitter down their way give them my contact details, I will then recommend a Fitter who lives on the south coast who can hit london in 1 hour and he also has a girlfreind at Luton where he often stays. so less than half the time it would take me to get there .

many thanks for contacting me though.

Geoff

No worries .........................

[Chris Bedford]

big pocket's or small pockets ?

I agree with Cazmac, at first it's very frustrating but I find now the difference between playing on a table with big pockets to small pockets for me anyway comes down to 110% concentration. Easy pockets or big pockets will become easier and bigger breaks will happen but tight pockets just need to really be focused. I've had 76 few 50s and nearly a 84 clearance on the table with generous pockets but the tight table think I've only had a few 30s on. Stick with it although I do think you can have a table that's too tight Linda ruins your fun a bit lol.

[vmax4steve]

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This is what I usually play on. What do you think guys? Too easy? I find it ok except perhaps that middle bag is a little too hard for me, but oh well...

Corners are big but that middle is tight. Looks like the cushions are fitted too much into the middle pocket making the corners too big.

[cazmac1]

I agree with Cazmac, at first it's very frustrating but I find now the difference between playing on a table with big pockets to small pockets for me anyway comes down to 110% concentration. Easy pockets or big pockets will become easier and bigger breaks will happen but tight pockets just need to really be focused. I've had 76 few 50s and nearly a 84 clearance on the table with generous pockets but the tight table think I've only had a few 30s on. Stick with it although I do think you can have a table that's too tight Linda ruins your fun a bit lol.

I agree if a table is so tight that it restricts your game and there are certain shots that are off limit's this is no good either as it will inhibit your development. Also you can drop your head and get frustrated. It's about striking a balance, finding a table that dos not allow you to take the **** but also allow's you to be creative and play without fear of the table itself. A table that rewards good play and doesn't kick you in the nuts when you've played a decent shot. A table like this will insure that every shot is given the same care this can only improve your game long term.