Any idea of age of a table.

[chas6868]

Hi Everyone

I have a old b/watts table with square type legs,that I have been looking online to research the age ect,

I would like to add some pictures here of my snooker room,with my Barton table from the 1980s and also this one I just bought but can anyone tell me the best way to get the pictures on the forum??

I can email them but would like to post for all to see,I bought the table as my barton has a crack right throw it,it seems okay but not sure if it will last,also the baton has solid cushion rails,the b/watt has steels,but once I got the b/watt it dont seem right to wreck a old classic table? may just put it up?

Anyway can anyone help me send the pictures.
Cheers Charles

[chas6868]

[IMG]032.jpg[/IMG]

here a picture of the leg,try and post more

[DeanH]

No image displayed, link does not work to local drives.
You cannot upload attachments in TSF until you have more than 10 posts.

see http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...470#post634470
for another option, ie Photobucket

[chas6868]

http://51252.photobucket.com/albums/hh567/chas681/

hope this works for pictures

[DeanH]

yep, these work fine.
I am sure someone will come along with some information about the table.

Dont forget the other table you have, there are guys who are historians and table fitters who should be able to help.
ps, welcome to TSF

[Geoff Large]

The Barton table was made in the hull area , I have worked on these tables many times, they are not bad around 6/10 but I would rate Enbild and Karnhem and Hillman as better made tables at around 8/10 , the B&Watts looks to be around 1920s/1930s circa , it has good 9 internal muntins rather than the 6 or 3 on most tables so gives good support across the whole width of the table , just one thing those slates are stacked on the inner edges , they should be stacked upright face outwards like a door not width ways , there is less damage to the slate joints when you store them upright in fact there should be none at all . I was taught many years ago how to store slates , and putting them on pallets or storing like this say on battons is a no go , after 23 years of working for the same boss , the firm was taken over by another boss who insisted on putting slates on pallets which made it very difficult to move tables around when all the floor space is taken up by slates , I had a right battle with him to change his ways , but it was not until we swopped wharehouses 6 years later that I took control and put all the slates up against the wall upright like a door in their sets of 5 slates , we got a lot more in a much smaller wharehouse . but now and again I would open up the wharehouse to find they had gone back to their old ways .

[chas6868]

Thanks Geoff,

Yes the storage was a problem ,I will Try and move the slates ,but what a job to shift them its like lifting something nailed to a floor,What type of filler would you use for chipped slates if any get chipped,is there a filler harder than the slate?

How do you tell what types of slates tables have ie welsh ect

How would you rate the B&WATTS, it looks very well made,only thing I was thinking about that may be a problem would be pocket sizes ,would a 1920s table tend to be tight.

Again thanks for your advice

[Geoff Large]

Charles , use a soft sand car body filler , do not get any filler that is harder than the slate , when it comes to sanding down you will rub away the softer slate quicker than the hard filler causing troughs each side of the damaged slate .
Welsh slate normaly is darker than italian or china ,portugal , and brazil slate , look for five bolt holes in the side of the slate for each cushion , so a max of 10 bolt holes down each side modern slates have 12 on each side 6 per every cushion count youre holes on the steels the long slots there should 5 per cushion , but Enbild in the 80s also insisted on 5 bolt holes per cushion on their custom made only for enbild italian made slates , but if the table is original then there will also be shadows under the slate for those 9 muntins , where the muntins have been touching the slate , with smoking this causes the uncovered under table slate to get the nictotine stain while the area covered by the muntin stays lighter .

[100-uper]

http://51252.photobucket.com/albums/hh567/chas681/

hope this works for pictures

I can place the Nelmes plate for the recushioning job as being between the wars, and as they superseded the Premier cushion with the "Improved" Premier cushion during this period, I would say it was more likely to be at the early end of this timescale.

For this reason alone, I would suggest that as the table itself must be quite a bit earlier than the new cushions, it is more likely to have been made just before the first war. Although I cannot pin down the design exactly, it is very similar to a number of Burroughes & Watts models which they were producing c.1912. They did also tend to pick up on these earlier models in the early 1920s, which I can only identify by them having a rigidus frame. This makes it difficult to date this period of table by style. I don't know if Geoff has spotted some construction feature which would allow him to improve on this information.

Pity you don't have the original Burroughes & Watts table plate. This would have told you which side of the First war it was made.

[salty]

there is an identical table in Old Trafford Manchester im not there for a couple
of weeks but will take a photo of the plate when im back there
so you can date it, Del hill has two tables like this also i know he was trying to get them dated bout six months ago maybe he will know?

[chas6868]

Thanks for all the replys,I will post more pictures of the construction of the table asap, see if that helps.

Yes I was keen to get a original name plate,but the truth be told when I went to buy the table I did not know what make it was, all I knew was it looked like a very well made old table,and was happy to find the b/watts stamp.

[100-uper]

there is an identical table in Old Trafford Manchester im not there for a couple
of weeks but will take a photo of the plate when im back there
so you can date it, Del hill has two tables like this also i know he was trying to get them dated bout six months ago maybe he will know?

The main information I need from the plate is whether it is made from ivory or plastic, as they seem to have been exclusively one or the other either side of the war. Looking at a different table, even of the same design, will not necessarily tell us about this table if it was a transition model.

[chas6868]

I have added a few more pictures to the old link to photo bucket, take it that frame numbers are no use,the slates also have numbers engraved into them.

[Geoff Large]

I can place the Nelmes plate for the recushioning job as being between the wars, and as they superseded the Premier cushion with the "Improved" Premier cushion during this period, I would say it was more likely to be at the early end of this timescale.

For this reason alone, I would suggest that as the table itself must be quite a bit earlier than the new cushions, it is more likely to have been made just before the first war. Although I cannot pin down the design exactly, it is very similar to a number of Burroughes & Watts models which they were producing c.1912. They did also tend to pick up on these earlier models in the early 1920s, which I can only identify by them having a rigidus frame. This makes it difficult to date this period of table by style. I don't know if Geoff has spotted some construction feature which would allow him to improve on this information.

Pity you don't have the original Burroughes & Watts table plate. This would have told you which side of the First war it was made.

You have just jogged my mind Peter , because the Burroughs and watts table has 9 muntins ( slate supports ) this would have been of an early design as they dropped down to 6 muntins after 1910/20, the reason for 9 muntins was a carry on for thinner slated tables to stop slate dip , as slate got thicker the need for the 9 muntins became less required so they would only use 6 muntins .

( later Rigidus design had no muntins but extra cross supports ) Phil in china has one of these for his bulgaria snooker holiday villa.

So 100uper is about spot on with the just before world war one , I was looking at the leg again and thought it was a bit art nouveau in design which would prob date it to the back end of that period say 1910. so the slates would then be 2 inch and the design of 9 muntins had not yet been dropped .

Geoff

[Geoff Large]

I have added a few more pictures to the old link to photo bucket, take it that frame numbers are no use,the slates also have numbers engraved into them.

Due to Burroughs and watts getting flattend by the Lufftwaffe all records of tables where destroyed , you cannot date the table from the numbers on B&Watts you have to go on design and those name plates to give a rough date , it is easy to spot thin early victorian and larger thick edwardian leg designs , it gets a bit difficult when they are overlapping .