A Big Bounce ?

[ryanah147]

John Higgins addresses the cue ball, takes his shot, pots the ball, but the cue ball bounces off the side cushion and he looses position. He stares at the table with amazement, then looks at the audience for 2 seconds. Immediately Joe Johnson says " He must have got a big bounce" ....... Five minutes later he has exactly the same shot , he addresses the cue ball, takes his shot at the same speed as his previous shot, he pots the ball, the cue ball strikes the cushion on the same spot, but this time he doesn't get a "Big Bounce" and the cue ball lands right in position for the following colour, all of a sudden it's a great shot. No comments of a 'Big Bounce' then. Both shots were played plain ball, no top spin, no bottom, no left or right hand side. So what has happened????. The cushion rubbers are a set of six matched sets, the cloth covering the cushions has the same tension all around, so is it the TV commentator talking out of his posterior?

[Byrom]

yes - basically -

I am betting this was Willie Thorn - He annoys me saying stuff like - wow that took a bounce or that must have been a kick -

All players - even the very best players do over hit shots and they do actually just miss - even simple shots at times.

[cyberheater]

John Higgins addresses the cue ball, takes his shot, pots the ball, but the cue ball bounces off the side cushion and he looses position. He stares at the table with amazement, then looks at the audience for 2 seconds. Immediately Joe Johnson says " He must have got a big bounce" ....... Five minutes later he has exactly the same shot , he addresses the cue ball, takes his shot at the same speed as his previous shot, he pots the ball, the cue ball strikes the cushion on the same spot, but this time he doesn't get a "Big Bounce" and the cue ball lands right in position for the following colour, all of a sudden it's a great shot. No comments of a 'Big Bounce' then. Both shots were played plain ball, no top spin, no bottom, no left or right hand side. So what has happened????. The cushion rubbers are a set of six matched sets, the cloth covering the cushions has the same tension all around, so is it the TV commentator talking out of his posterior?

I think Joe really meant to say that 'Higgins thinks he got a big bounce' as it was clear at the time that Higgins thought that.

[ryanah147]

Let's face it Higging is playing snooker long enough to know there is no such thing as a big bounce, and if there was , it was he who caused it by playing the shot to hard.

[Terry Davidson]

Steve Davis and John Parrot did one of those things at a break in the World's a few years back where they used a stimpmeter (measures speed of putting greens) and coated a cushion with chalk and they did get a slightly bigger bounce that when that spot on the cushion didn't have chalk literally painted on by Parrot.

I guess it makes the cloth more stiff or something?

So the answer is yes, you can get a bigger bounce if you slathered chalk or presumably dirt all over the cushion however I think the usual culprit is the player actually hit the ball too hard as even with the stimpmeter and chalk the difference was minimal.

Terry

[ryanah147]

Probably one of the best I've heard/seen was on one of the major tournaments last year when Ronnie o Sullivan was playing Mark Selby. Ronnie won the first frame playing great stuff, but in the second , third, and fourth frames he was totally shut out. In the third frame after missing a simple shot and losing total position if he had got that shot, he then runs his hand over the cushion and bedcloth as to say ' the bedcloth is slack, the cushions are playing wrong'.... The two muppets in the commentary took this up immediately and for the remainder of that frame, and the following frame referred to it no less than eight times. The table fitters were blamed, the under table heating, the overhead lighting. The midsession break is then on, so on commencement of the second session Ronnie O. Sullivan comes out and plays his scintillating snooker and wins the next 5 frames in just over an hour.
Taylor and Virgo, who 20 minutes previous had slated the table and the fitters came out with ' I've never seen a table playing so well'.
It is obvious that they ran out of comment and just jumped on the bandwagon coming out with any old tripe. Do they not realise that these tables are fitted by the best fitters in the world and everything is checked and double checked before commencement of play.
It annoys me intencelywhen you hear that old dribble from people who should know better.
Joe Johnson is another one who talks through his posterior at times. Recently he has come up with 'Oh, he's got a light cue ball'
Helloooooo!!!!, Does the word 1G mean anything Joe? "........ I'm just watching Higgins and O Sullivan on Eurosport, and Mr. Johnson has just come out with ' Oh, he's got a big bounce there'. It must be catching.

[cyberheater]

The midsession break is then on, so on commencement of the second session Ronnie O. Sullivan comes out and plays his scintillating snooker and wins the next 5 frames in just over an hour.

They switched tables

[roykay]

Having experimented with the effect of chalk on the cushion I found the same, the ball will travel around 20 percent further at slow to medium speed.
Therefore it follows that if there is chalk on the cue ball (which there often is from the tip striking the ball) and sometimes although rarely strikes the cushion with the chalky point on the ball contacting the cushion a similar effect could happen.

Roy Bacon

[Neil Taperell]

Great deduction Roy .....never thought that could be the reason .

[cyberheater]

Joe Johnson said he never experienced a big bounce when he was a professional.
I wonder if it's a resent phenomena and I wonder if it started when they started to use the Star tables?

[andy carson]

Joe Johnson said he never experienced a big bounce when he was a professional.
I wonder if it's a resent phenomena and I wonder if it started when they started to use the Star tables?

i would say it started more when tweetens messed about with the chalk compound, that added to players getting more spin on the balls either intentionally or unintentionally with more types of tips on the market, add into that maybe different amounts of chalk transfer to cueball from tip depending on the type used?

[Saint Michael]

Agree with Roy. It's the chalk. Always has been. When on the cushion. Will create a bigger bounce

[cyberheater]

Agree with Roy. It's the chalk. Always has been. When on the cushion. Will create a bigger bounce

If there was a instance where the big bounce happened very early in the match. During the early part of the first frame of a match then you can exclude chalk as the culprit as the balls and cushions would have been cleaned.

[Saint Michael]

Not true. Chalk is on the ball from the first shot. So if the ball strikes the cushion at the exact point the chalk is in the ball then a transfer can be made. So it's from the first shot this could happen.

[cueman]

I think its a combination of things but the first thing to say is it tends to happen on the table when the cloth has been on a few days. Once the sheen has come off the cushions the natural wear of the cloth means that there is going to be parts on the cushion that have worn slightly more than other spots, thus creating an area where their is a possibility that the ball doesn't grip to the cloth on the cushion and bounces further than normal.

Secondly I think the table heaters, general heat in the arena and atmosphere from the weather outside can also play a big part in the effect. First thing in the morning you are less likely to see any bounces or bad kicks. However once the table has been played on for about 2 hours we start to see the effects of chalk getting into the cloth, the natural warming of the room from the lighting and audience and then you see these problems occur.