Putting a snooker table on the 2nd floor

[maryfield]

From memory, and its a long time ago, the loading equates to about 15 adults standing in the room. The load is not directed directly downwards as the floorboards spread the load over the joists. I will see if I can track it down but it was a long time ago.

I just tracked this down which was copied from my website from years ago.

It is a common misconception that floors need to be specially strengthened to support the weight of full size snooker tables. In fact, the actual floor loading over the area involved is very low.

The total weight of the biggest snooker table (full size) is unlikely to exceed 1250kg.

The table stands on several legs so the incident loading is divided up over each leg.

This equates to 0.36 kgs/sq cm.

...Or approximately 15 people standing in the room.

[philip in china]

A snooker table weighs nothing like 2 tons. Most are about a ton or a little over. I have a Burroughes & Watts with 2" slates. The table is the Rigidus made out of serious mahogany. It weighs in at about 25cwt- or 1,250 Kg. Somebody said a steel block table is heavier- well, yes it would be but by a very few kilos. Certainly not enough to make any significant difference. If we are talking about such tiny differences then don't store your long tackle on hooks under the table as that will also add to the overall mass.

Now let's do the mathematics for the first problem. My table is on 8 legs. Each one is about 15cm square. If we take a weight of 1,200 Kg, which is a heavy table, that works out at 150Kg per leg. That is like a big, heavy man standing on an area about 6" x 6". So if he walked across the room, each time he lifted his foot, the other foot would be exerting more pressure than any of the legs of my table. Obviously the table is resting in 1 place so there is a greater chance of it punching its way through the floor but the risk, really, is minimal. If you are worried about that risk you don't need huge sheets of 6mm steel plate. I have already shown how the loading works. Get 8 pieces of plate, each, say 6" x 18" and just put one under each foot. You have reduced the pressure exerted to 1/3 of the value I have calculated above. If you have a bit of wiggle room try to get the feet over a joist when siting the table. I doubt if that is completely necessary but certainly won't hurt. So that, I hope, deals with the "Will it punch a hole through my floor?" question.

Second issue is the overall load. A table is, more or less, 6.5 square metres. To keep the mathematics simple let's assume that our table is 1,300 Kg. (That is a serious table). That total load is 200 Kg per square metre. That is very, very little. Also consider that you need to leave an uncluttered margin of 1.5 metres all the way round the table. So a snooker room would be a minimum of 4.8 x 6.6 metres = more or less 32 square metres. A room that size must be rated to take a good deal more than a snooker table. Frankly if it isn't you have got major problems!

Most of the stories of snooker tables starting off upstairs and the owner coming home to find it on the ground floor are simply myths. Where it does, sometimes, happen I believe is where somebody does a "loft conversion" or puts a room over a garage and is using timbers never intended to support a floor with a load. Frankly anybody who does that and puts a 1 ton+ snooker table in there without seeking expert advice deserves what he gets!

[cyberheater]

Most of the stories of snooker tables starting off upstairs and the owner coming home to find it on the ground floor are simply myths. Where it does, sometimes, happen I believe is where somebody does a "loft conversion" or puts a room over a garage and is using timbers never intended to support a floor with a load. Frankly anybody who does that and puts a 1 ton+ snooker table in there without seeking expert advice deserves what he gets!

That's got to be special moment in your life when you come home to find your upstairs snooker table has magically appeared downstairs.

[j6uk]

That's got to be special moment in your life when you come home to find your upstairs snooker table has magically appeared downstairs.

especially if you got doggy knees

[Staezione]

I have one on my 2nd floor and i can tell you if i ever sell my house, i sell the table with it and buy me another table! (We carried the slates up via the stairs by hand)

[philip in china]

On Geoff's website there are some pictures of one he put upstairs in a French farmhouse. The farmer just used a forklift to place them in the upstairs room. They did that before the window went in.

I would recommend anybody to hire some sort of dolly- such as is used for shifting a piano. I have carried slates a few times and it is no fun. I am seriously compact and strong and I was struggling. They aren't just heavy, they are very compact.

In my house in Europe I have my table and a 6'8" Bechstein grand piano. The grand piano was a pussy cat in comparison! It is heavy, admittedly, but so big you can get a whole squad of strong men round it.

[Geoff Large]

the weight of most tables come in at 1250kg or 1.1/4 ton .
Some with steel block cushions and heavy oak or Cuban mahogany can be more closer to 1500kg or 1.5 ton
and the very rare slate framed tables with thick slates and steel blocks can be close to 2000kg or 2 ton

Best way to get them upstairs if you have access is Crane or forklift or Lift.
if not then look at this report as good old man muscle and plenty of men 6 if possible with straps and two piano trolleys are required.

http://gclbilliards.com/6-people-to-...rnsley-client/

this table went up two stairs into the roof area as can be seen from the sloping side walls , it was a very heavy 2 inch welsh slate with steel block cushions , the bad news was it came down from an attic in his old house so two days of lifting these slates , although i did use a slate slide to get it down stairs .

some wood floors if not stiff enough can have bounce in them , many concrete beam and block floors should be ok as are steel beamed supported flooring .
always try and get the legs as close to the beam if cue room allows .
You can put steel plate under each leg so that the load can get as close to the steel beam as possible .

if new build there may be a chance to get the slates upstairs by crane or forklift before the windows go in .

my advice and MOST BILLIARDS FITTERS WOULD AGREE to anyone putting a table upstairs , get a one inch slate bed one it is lighter to carry up . :biggrin-new:

[lesedwards]

Being a builder I will give you some advice. First off check the span of your floor joist on the main floor. Anything over 14' I would be very nervous about installing the table upstairs. When we have wall board delivered to our homes I make sure the board man are coming to install it with in a couple days. If the span is 14' or more I will put temporary supports in the basement until they start. I have seen floor joust actually bow in the Center. Size wise we are talking 4'x12' sheets so not much different and more evenly weight distributed. Good Luck. The other thing you can do which I would suggest is go to YOYR loacal building department give them your floor joist span, size of joist 2x8, 2x10 2x12 and the weight of the table and they will have a chart to tell you max of load per square inch. I don't want to be a bearer of bad news but I just want it to be safe and I would hate to hear that the joust bowed and cracked the drywall on the main floor ceiling. It really is all about the span on the main floor.

[fractivsammy]

Thanks everyone for your responses, especially Geoff Large who provided some extremely helpful pictures of how the slates can be brought into the house! I've sent all the relevant info to a structural engineer, so hopefully they'll give me the thumbs up for putting it into our new home. Fingers crossed.

[fractivsammy]

So I talked to the engineer, he said I could put it on the 2nd floor but that the weight could cause a bounce in the floor. To me that's a big NO, I don't want to have to be leveling the table all the time or feel unsafe walking around.

I'm now considering other options, like trying to get 1 inch thick slates instead of the 1.75 inches I have now. I have no idea how to get a hold of these though, or how seriously it would degrade the quality of the playing surface (hopefully not much!), or if it would even be possible to retrofit my current table with them. Buying a whole new table is not out of the realm of possibility, but I'd like to keep costs low if at all possible.

I'm determined to make this work!!

[jrc750]

So is stiffening the floor up not an option ??

[DeanH]

Putting a snooker table on the 2nd floor

as said above would it not be an option to take up the floor boards on the 2nd floor and add bracing and extra structure?
I am no building engineer but possible?
any option to keep the dream alive!

1" slates could dish after time unless they are supported perfectly by the table structure.
Geoff has mentioned previously about slates not being supported by the table and there are ways of correcting this.
What table do you have?
it could be possible that changing slate thickness would open another can of worms of table alterations ?!

[fractivsammy]

I have an old EJ Riley table. Not sure how old or what model, bought it off a pool hall near here that was shutting down. Here's a pic of it, maybe someone can identify?

table.jpg

edit: currently the table is sitting in my office, in case you are wondering.
edit 2: reinforcing the floor may be an option, I sent off an email to the engineer to ask about it, waiting on a response.

[DeanH]

looks like a Riley Aristocrat to me, in dark oak from the photo not mahogany but the photo and condition does not help
if so, they made these fro many years around the 70s 80s 90s time.
good sound table from what I have read.
lucky you got one

[Geoff Large]

It is a Aristocrat type design , but maybe an imported one not a Uk made one ?

it is mahogany colour , the stain and spray on polish having worn off the cushions

Getting back to one inch slate beds , they do have to have good frame support as they will dip , and 99% of them have top plate cushions , not modern pocket plates that can take a ball at speed , but thin top plates with fingers of brass that are inlaid into top capping of cushion.

like this table http://gclbilliards.com/ashcroft-tul...irca-pre-1896/