What make is this table.

[lesedwards]

Hi Exeryone, just found this table on our local free market internet site. Looks to me like it could be a Steel Block Riley. By the wording in the ad they have no clue what they have. Just says Antique 12x6 Billiard Table with sticks, long poles, board, short sticks and a wall mount. Great Shape. Could be my next refurbish job. I sent a PM to Geoff but I thought I would give everyone a chance to figure it out.

[Terry Davidson]

Did they give a suggested price? Looks like a Riley but I'm no expert but it appears to be in good shape

Terry

[lesedwards]

Did they give a suggested price? Looks like a Riley but I'm no expert but it appears to be in good shape

Terry

Hey now you leave it alone....LOL $800 so that means probably $350

[Geoff Large]

with top plates it is too early to be a Riley unless they have put new cushions on and skimped on fixings and put top plate son for ease ?

check on slate thickness too this may date it , if it is 2 inch then closer to 1895 , 1.5 inch around 1870/80s , 1 inch 1830s to 1860s

George wright favoured reeded legs but they where generally much larger turned legs so my guess is George Wright , a larger photo would be more helpful .

oak was favoured by Orme & sons

Ashcrofts may be another to look to

something wrong though

slide in panels on a top plated cushion when for that period it would have been buttons hiding the cushion bolts

could be a made up table from different parts or refurbished and they put the slide in panel feature in

[Terry Davidson]

Hey now you leave it alone....LOL $800 so that means probably $350

I don't want it as I'm happy with my own table. For that price it might be worth you buying it and fixing it up and re-selling it (just don't let Odie know about it)

Terry

[100-uper]

with top plates it is too early to be a Riley unless they have put new cushions on and skimped on fixings and put top plate son for ease ?

check on slate thickness too this may date it , if it is 2 inch then closer to 1895 , 1.5 inch around 1870/80s , 1 inch 1830s to 1860s

George wright favoured reeded legs but they where generally much larger turned legs so my guess is George Wright , a larger photo would be more helpful .

oak was favoured by Orme & sons

Ashcrofts may be another to look to

something wrong though

slide in panels on a top plated cushion when for that period it would have been buttons hiding the cushion bolts

could be a made up table from different parts or refurbished and they put the slide in panel feature in

My first impression was that this is a modern table. Although the photo is very poor, the design doesn't look like any 19th century English table I've ever seen. The legs are proportionately too narrow and the arched finish on the frame is a much later feature in England.

I think the top mounted pocket plates are a red-herring, and this is a table of North American manufacture, for the Canadian market some time in the last thirty or forty years.

I'd also be interested to see some better photos, which might change my opinion. The colour difference between the frame and the cushions is a bit concerning.

[Geoff Large]

Les has informed me it does not have top plates and it is a trick of the light from the Camera showing a reflection , larger more close up photo's will be required and maybe slide back those panels on a side cushion to see if any thing does not align up and maybe been plugged and re-drilled .

I think it is made up table from different parts or like 100 upper says a modern twist of an old classic .

I think I have seen a Gillows table with thin reeded legs and looked to find this version http://cjantiques.com/antiques/2/June-Furniture-087.jpg
But this is no gillows table , there are plenty of American made tables with reeded legs but they are Pool tables .

[lesedwards]

Just received a new photo of the table.

[Geoff Large]

It is a modern table built as 100 upper says within the last 30 to 40 years ,thin plywood slide in panels though , but old slot head leg bolt I can see near rest end .

The leg design we have seen on billiard dining tables and smaller 7ft 8ft type tables and I used to have a bagatelle table that had legs like this , finger reeded , they may have used a Riley frame and returned the square legs plus put a bevel on the block of the leg
the arches look like a riley .
A photo of the underside showing muntins ( slate supports ) may help plus find out if the table has dowl joints rather than mortise joint .

Geoff

[lesedwards]

It is a modern table built as 100 upper says within the last 30 to 40 years ,thin plywood slide in panels though , but old slot head leg bolt I can see near rest end .

The leg design we have seen on billiard dining tables and smaller 7ft 8ft type tables and I used to have a bagatelle table that had legs like this , finger reeded , they may have used a Riley frame and returned the square legs plus put a bevel on the block of the leg
the arches look like a riley .
A photo of the underside showing muntins ( slate supports ) may help plus find out if the table has dowl joints rather than mortise joint .

Geoff

Hi Geoff we do not have people over here that re manufacture legs nor do Opel care. This table is all original so I guess I will have to take a drive to see what they have. If you open the last photo on an iPad or any tablet where you can zoom in you will see the arch in the skirt looks to be a full 1-1/2" thick which makes me believe it is all original.

[lesedwards]

Okay here we go. In one of the photos she sent me I could see some cues that all looked the same so I asked her what was on the badge which might tell us what the make of the table is and this was the reply.

This table came from england we purchased it from "Sir Bentley Billard's" i have the bill of sale.
the table we believe wood dated 1894, the legs we picked out to have made "Williow Legs" 1999
we had it shipped from England when we moved here to our home in Niagara falls.

It came over by ship then by truck to our house. there is no name on the table. All the cue's have
Sir Bently Billards'.
Now my question to you guys what tables did Sur Bently Billiards sell?

[100-uper]

Ah, Sir William Bentley! That explains a lot.

I recall an auctioneers description of an old cue rack I once bought: "made in part from old wood."

[lesedwards]

Ah, Sir William Bentley! That explains a lot.

I recall an auctioneers description of an old cue rack I once bought: "made in part from old wood."

So in other words it's a nothing table that they spent a lot of money bringing with them from England to Canada?

[100-uper]

I wouldn't say that. You can bet it was VERY expensive if they bought it from Sir William Bentley, so it should be excellent quality if price is anything to go by. Maybe Geoff can advise whether he has come across any of their replica tables "in the field" and can give a better idea. It doesn't hold much interest for me from an historical perspective.

[Geoff Large]

Actually I have my own thoughts about Sir William Bentley replica tables and would rather not say on here in detail , having worked on a few of their replica diners that just to me do not make the grade or worth the high price , lets just say if you want high end high price you would be better off going to Hamilton's , or if you require a nice replica Billiards diner go to Cheshire billiards and speak to Brian or his son Peter they are the best in business when it comes to replica Billiard diners , that good that one top firm buys them from him to resell as their own .

I have just acquired a replica scoreboard made by sir William Bentley Billiards , looked good on the wall away from close inspection , but once off the wall you can see it is made of plywood , the person who sold me the scoreboard paid a large amount for it, thinking it was well built , I will be putting the board up for sale on my web site soon so keep an eye out for it if anyone one wants a replica that looks ok but at a low price because of the plywood , it even has twin bevelled mirrors in it .

This table is as I thought a made up or modified table , maybe they have taken a Riley Imperial square leg with arches and did re-turn/carve those square legs to make the finger reeded design you see , taking the Gillows design as an example .
they would start off with a table like this = http://gclbilliards.com/riley-oak-fu...to-shrewsbury/

as you can see if you study the upper part of the leg the bevel is already in the leg on the Riley Imperial , all they had to do was place the legs on a lathe and turn the lower part , then carve either by hand or using a Router to form the finger reeding ( willow design ) , everything else matches up the arches are the same twin bolts but different buttons design , I would like a look at the upper half of the table showing the pocket plate , they may have changed these to bolt up type as riley pockets have a habit of coming loose .

if the table has dowel joints and 6 muntins under the slate 2 per void , you can bet it started life as a Riley Imperial around the 1920/30s but they made this table right up to the 50s and maybe the 60s , the imperials look good in old barns that have been converted like the one in the link with oak beams and windows and doors .
and if the cushions have been re-rubbered correct and has good cloth this table would be an excellent buy for anyone considering a full size in Canada , if it is a Riley Imperial , they are solid well made tables double bolted legs 6 muntin supports , Welsh slate and in solid oak . you just cannot get this quality made tables today in mass production .