Serial numbers

[Rodent]

Hi, i have recently acquired a Riley snooker diner and i would like to know a bit more about its age. It has various serial numbers stamped on legs sides etc but they dont all match. Is this normal or have i got a cut 'n' 'shut!
Thanks
Ps, please be nice....this is my first post

[Neil Taperell]

Pics would assist . Few table fitters on here would be able to help you .

[Geoff Large]

Frame and leg numbers should match

it is normal to have cushions with different numbers though . is this what you mean ?

as Neil says photo of top of leg and frame parts would be a good place to get comments

all serial numbers on riley diners start with an A then a number 6 for 6ft so A6 , 7 for 7ft so A7 , and A8 for 8foot

the A stands for Accrington

[Rodent]

Very interesting, thank you. The table sides and ends are stamped A9231 and the dining top (5 sections) are stamped A9242. The cushions are stamped A9245
The leg tops are marked 'Riley LTD' and Accrington, and are numbered 0 to 3. The rise and fall mechanism are numbered also 0 to 3
The legs are round at the bottom and fluted design. I think the table is mahogany.
The slate is only about 1/2" thick

[Geoff Large]

Very rare to find a 9ft
A9 = 9ft
it also must have the pull out handles at each end to lift the dual height
I have only seen one other 9ft in 40 years of fitting so not many about

they made them from 5ft to 9ft

I would not bother too much about tops or cushions having different serial numbers , I doubt they made many 9fts so the chances are it was as it left the factory in accrington with all those different serial numbers

it could be that the frame was made in one shop the cushions in another or on another bench and the same with the tops , it is important that the lifters go together 0 to 3 a per leg and match up to the other part of the lifter on the side frames as they wear in to each other smoothly , if you swop them about they can stick and cause problems .

it will be the same as this one https://www.hamiltonbilliards.com/pr...ing_table.html but will have solid mahogany or oak leaves depending what it is made of

[Rodent]

Thanks Geoff. Thats great to know. Its always nice to have sonething unusual/rare .....provided i never need parts!
I fo have the 4 lifting handles though the previous owner never had them fitted.
Do you know roughly when this table A9231 may have been built?
I also have set of old balls, though i dont think they are ivory. They're very dirty and i will need to clean them.
I hope to get some pictures uploaded once i figure out how to do that

[DeanH]

Thanks Geoff. Thats great to know. Its always nice to have sonething unusual/rare .....provided i never need parts!
I fo have the 4 lifting handles though the previous owner never had them fitted.
Do you know roughly when this table A9231 may have been built?
I also have set of old balls, though i dont think they are ivory. They're very dirty and i will need to clean them.
I hope to get some pictures uploaded once i figure out how to do that

all great info from Geoff as usual
images - until you have over 10 posts in TSF you wont see the attachment function.
but at any time you can use sites like Photobucket, register free, upload your images, select the image, copy the IMG code (not the URL), and paste that IMG code to your TSF post to display the image

[Rodent]

DeanH, thanks for the info. sounds a bit too techy for me. I think i'll keep posting till I reach the golden 10, then upload photos. I'm a total novice so I can easily think of millions more questions. then when I post my photo's, I hope it will give something back to the forum!

[Rodent]

Geoff, my table does look very like the 'Hamilton billiards' one you posted the link to. The legs are of the same design and it has wooden buttons to hide the screws. The pockets are also the same, just a net bag with no metal 'rack' for the ball to run along. My table does however have brass brackets along the outer sides of the cushions, about a foot from each pocket, so could it be that it would have originally had a 'proper' pocket arrangement?

[Geoff Large]

without photo's I cannot date the table , but they were made from the 1900s onwards right up to the 1960s/70s , then they started to use chinese made Diners also sold by titan

buttons do say the table is an early one as later ones normally had slide in panels over the cushions screws

all diners should have pocket bags as any fitted ball rails on a diner would be in the way of anyone pulling a chair up and trying to sit down , their legs would be catching the ball rails
also the proper name for them is billiard cottage Diners .

but they do have their problems , 9ft span can sometimes bend in the middle , they do have two anti bow beams built into them but it also may have anti bow screw thread bar which is adjustable , this is nothing more than threaded bar running the entire length under a central beam and onto brackets at each end .
when you tighten the nuts up on the end of these threaded bars , it lifts the beam up in the middle of the slate , it maybe that your table has this or then it may not have them fitted .
Brian at cheshire billiards makes a very good clone of these Riley 9fts . made in the uk using good wood and very good operating lifters and parts and full size rubber , if you require parts for a riley diner then Cheshire billiards is the place to go, Brian and Peter even has those pull out handles made for the 8ft and 9ft tables .
all riley diners have the normal thick anti bow beams on them from 5ft to 9ft . you can see them on these photos in the up position showing lifting bracket http://gclbilliards.com/riley-billia...snooker-table/

if you want to see what a chinese billiard diner table looks like when the inferior lifting parts fail and has no anti bow beams look at this 8ft that I sorted out for a client
http://gclbilliards.com/fixed-height...-dining-table/

[Rodent]

Thanks Geoff, my table has the two thick beams you mention. It has been 'strengthened' by adding two extra beams, screwed to the original beams. It still looks a bit like it sags in the middle, though the frame that holds the slate is not sagging. The adjusters are cast iron and not brass. Thay are stamped 'patent'. I'm having a little trouble lining up the wooden frame ( under the slate) with the rise and fall mechanism, though the rise and fall adjusters on their own are very smooth.

[Rodent]

I wonder if the wooden frame under the slate is not original? It is a fairly rough construction and the holes for the adjuster pins do not quite line up, making the lifting mechanism stick. The slate is not back on yet so now would be a good time to fix it

[Geoff Large]

Those swing out handles are a must have on any diner 8ft and over

most diners do have sticking sliders , I have never seen cast iron sliders , they can rust , they are not good at sliding together like brass does .
Brass ones are better and you must grease them or spray them with WD 40 now and again
, they must flip in at the same time and also flip out at the same time when lowering down

it is not uncommon on the smaller tables that people lift with the pocket plates which cause loose pocket plates or even worse broken out pocket plates
smaller tables you must place hands under the end cushions to lift , on 8ft and 9ft swing out the lifting handles .

[Rodent]

I've got the slate on now and the height adjusters seem to work ok. It is quite a lift to raise the table up, and then once up it seems a little 'wobbly'. I've been trying to refit the cloth, which is quite tricky as the 'D' and spots are already marked. Also, i used isopon P38 car body filler on the slate join and it has worked well i just hope the join doesn't open when the table is raised from dining to snooker height.
I refitted the lifting handles, which haven't been used for about 40 years. The screw holes were a bit weak so i think i will need to move the handles slightly to find new wood to screw into. For the time being it lifts better on the framework.
With any luck i'll get the cushions on this week and then try it out.
I wonder if Riley had reached the limit of the design with a 9ft table on only 4 legs!

[Geoff Large]

to be fair anything over 7ft does require 6 legs even some 7fts sag down .
that span of slate bed is going to sag even with beams underneath , the 9ft slate did have section slate beds , i have only worked on one and cannot remember how many sections one or two ?
P38 soft sand filler is the best to use

if you can fit twin adjustable threaded 1/2 inch bar with centre beam this will solve the sagging and prevent it from happening even more .
you will require angle iron at each end drill hole for bar and bend the bar like a bow to fit from angle iron bracket to go under central beam to other angle iron bracket , nut each side of bracket hole and adjust to take sagging out .