Frustating table- help.

[Sea Chief]

Hi- Ive recently tried to inject some playability into our welsh village table- but seems to have been in vain. Quite alot of effort: very frustrating.

When I got here 1 year ago, barely anyone uses/ used the table, tho in its own room/ good lighting/ C.heating/ covered well. Why then? a few plays & aha- the pockets were so tight, so it seemed, that unless laser-precise you could rarely string 3 pots together, balls popping/ wobbling out every other shot & anything remotely close to a cushion impossible to pot (unless as slow as poss.. not conjusive to white positioning > so break over). Results being after 1 frame you'd be SO annoyed.. & give up.

So after measuring 3" a cnr pocket I get basic info (afaict) then, 3-3/4" for a club table (3-1/2" for a pro). Ok so out comes two Co's from bce & Absolute. The table was set up by Absolute (name on back of pockets- new pkt leathers part of recloth/ overall set-up ~20 yrs ago so Im told by village comittee.. table rarely used since). Yes the pockets are tight Im told, & cloth slow, they can 'open them up to club size' & iron table. Great. £120 to inc a basic service- seems good.

I chose Absolute (as bce chap didn't get back to me). The rep who came seemed young & not the guy who'd actually do work- an experienced fitter would do it I was told. Ok I guess that's normal then.

Work was done, many boxes/ tools/ dust (filing drop points) galore/ irons etc etc. 3 hours or so. Table looks great, re-marked etc. One thing concerned me "Oh I dont actually play at all" he says afterwards. Odd. Anyway he looked just the guy you'd want to do this job. Absolute hassle me to pay bill a few days later, before I even have time to try it. Odd.

Anyway I've played 20 or so frames since & the speed's better, white a bit more responsive. A bit. The pockets: he showed me slivers of the corner rubbers barely more than 1/8" each.. I thought at time seemed not enough, just from a hunch I had.

The damn pockets plays almost exactly as before: the only difference being head-on you might have a mite, a tiny bit more more room, but anything off 45* (ie a straight pot) is as before. Anything near cushions > nigh on impossible > breaks just cannot happen. Pockets still look tight to me, now the balls often wobble out & shoot up the cushions. More odd. I'm MORE frustrated than I was before after all this effort. I've emailed Absolute. No reply.

Thw whole idea is to get folks playing regularly enough on the table, for the 1st time ever.. to generate some income for the village pot. I convinced them this outlay/ service would do the trick (as 3" gnat's pockets was so obviously the reason, surely).

Now I don't know what's what. And village will soon be onto me as it being nothing more than a vanity project for my benefit only/ I fleeced the village. Not ideal as the new boy. From England.

[qc2]

Playing on a bad table can be frustrating and it's hard to drop the lingering doubts you have. My complaints are typically around really slow cloth, ripped cloths and cushions that throw the balls in the air!

Until recently I thought the tightness of a pocket was purely down to the width of the opening but was told that it also depends on the size/shape of the arc of the hole at the opening.

Fitters not playing the game not uncommon. You don't have to play to any sort of level to understand table fitting. I'd expect most players on here who play don't know the first thing about table fitting. It might help but by no means necessary.

As for expecting to be paid how is that odd? I'd find it odd if they didn't demand payment before leaving the premises.

[Sea Chief]

But its not a bad table, it might be old but its made well. Its a typical club looking/ condition table. It says Riley Arrowflite (cushions). As for their hassling me so quick re. bill.. forget it/ I was just highlighting the Co not so great even in comms (a blunt email tbh). I just need advice on how to get this table playable, & why we might have paid £120 for so little results (if barely any re. playability).

The cushions do to jump when you fire a shot at them.. but this is tiny inconvenience compared to so fundamental as to not being able to play enough to enjoy even 1 frame due to the way these damn pockets behave.

The drop points were actually shifted 1/2" forward by filing the slate. But even so, the table isn't playing any differently whatsoever. Its very peculiar. That prooves its really mainly the width of the pockets being the primary cause of the problem.

Ive played on plenty of club tables, plenty of halls. None have been unenjoyable tables, none have shown any of the pocket misbehaving as this. All we want is a basic club-playable table. Nothing else is wrong with it at all worth mentioning, apart from the pockets.

Any advice on the pockets is much appreciated. Are there any ex-fitters on here? anyone with any table know-how who can shed some light?

Thanks, SC

[Terry Davidson]

This might be an old billiards table and they all had smaller pockets and severe cut to the cushions. If you send me your email via PM I will email you a bunch of templates and you can compare the table's pockets to what they should be. In addition look at the undercut of the pockets and also whether the pocket narrows after the fall of the slatge, which it shouldn't.

[Sea Chief]

Hi Terry- thanks for this info.. I have a hunch you are on the right track. I did hear I think maybe the BCE chap say (the 1st guy who didnt get back to me alas so I didnt use him for the work) s'thing about it being a billiards tabale/ old/ cushions not s'thing or other. I dont think I can PM you so my emailisroryc*uplandATh*tmail.c*.uki hope you get that.. (deliberately jumbled).

[DeanH]

yep we all got that

you are on 8 posts, need 10 and a bit of patience for the function to arrive

at the club I go to, we have three tables and one is locally called the billiard table and it had really tight pockets (no one really wanted to play on it).
We recently contracted with Thurstons to do the maintenance and they looked at the rails and said to not bother trying to open them up any more as the wood wont take it anymore (it seems they had already been opened up over the years). So we now have new rails and the openings and the drops are perfect and there is a queue often to use it now

[Sea Chief]

10 posts? well I never etc etc etc

[Sea Chief]

yep we all got that

you are on 8 posts, need 10 and a bit of patience for the function to arrive

at the club I go to, we have three tables and one is locally called the billiard table and it had really tight pockets (no one really wanted to play on it).
We recently contracted with Thurstons to do the maintenance and they looked at the rails and said to not bother trying to open them up any more as the wood wont take it anymore (it seems they had already been opened up over the years). So we now have new rails and the openings and the drops are perfect and there is a queue often to use it now

What are rails?

[DeanH]

the chunky woody side bits that hold the cushions and connect on to the table

[vmax]

The match table in our club is like this, if the OB is three inches from a cushion you have to be spot on. Pockets are the correct width but the shape of the jaws deflects the ball across the opening rather than into the pocket so if you touch the jaws it doesn't drop.
It used to be worse to the extent that a ball on the cushion wouldn't pot at anything over pocket weight but we had new cushions about ten years ago which made it slightly better.

Learning to play on such a table is bloody hard but when you're playing a match on it and your opponent doesn't know the table and gets down to play a ball near the cushion you chalk your cue expectantly. Even if he pots it you know that he played it perfectly, he doesn't and goes for another one and it's your turn when he stops mid step thinking it was in.

[Sea Chief]

Ah ok. But fitting new rails on this table is just n/a. Its not s'thing the BCE guy mentioned either.

I'm just wondering how, after taking maybe 1/4" off the pockets openings, plus the drop filing to now make 3-5/8" at the new drop points maybe 1/2" forward (3-1/8" before at the old drop points).. why there is negligeable difference, if anything at all if Im honest-? actually its MORE frustrating to play on -for me- now, knowing so much effort & research/ calls/ time off work to sort & meet reps etc Ive put in for so little gain.

[Sea Chief]

The match table in our club is like this, if the OB is three inches from a cushion you have to be spot on. Pockets are the correct width but the shape of the jaws deflects the ball across the opening rather than into the pocket so if you touch the jaws it doesn't drop.
It used to be worse to the extent that a ball on the cushion wouldn't pot at anything over pocket weight but we had new cushions about ten years ago which made it slightly better.

Learning to play on such a table is bloody hard but when you're playing a match on it and your opponent doesn't know the table and gets down to play a ball near the cushion you chalk your cue expectantly. Even if he pots it you know that he played it perfectly, he doesn't and goes for another one and it's your turn when he stops mid step thinking it was in.

Yes but this isnt fun. Im not interested at all in competitiveness. Actually I dont even like using the scoreboard (apart from as a Swearometer) even in clubs really. Tbh if the pockets were opened up to silly US pool size.. Id be perfectly ok with it: getting 40-50 breaks, whether it bears -any- relation to other normal pocket size, is totally cool with me. Im not interested in getting myself up to better snkr std per se or honing my perfect technique. Im too old for that. I just want to have a fun game, which basically means potting alot, & get others to enjoy it too > to bring in some money for the village & just get the damn thing used.

[Sea Chief]

The match table in our club is like this, if the OB is three inches from a cushion you have to be spot on. Pockets are the correct width but the shape of the jaws deflects the ball across the opening rather than into the pocket so if you touch the jaws it doesn't drop.

This seems spot on.. it seems the balls wobble either by the interior bit of the cushion angles being wrong, or their too bouncy at this bit, &/ or the balls is s'how grabbing & so friction issue at these points).. but.. surely this should have been rectified by the correct curve template (as I saw both fitters demonstrate to see what could be done) used & cushions recut.

As I see it/ what is seems is: not only has too little been removed, but the same curve line has just been followed rather than a different one correct to rectify these particular pockets.

[Terry Davidson]

Hi Terry- thanks for this info.. I have a hunch you are on the right track. I did hear I think maybe the BCE chap say (the 1st guy who didnt get back to me alas so I didnt use him for the work) s'thing about it being a billiards tabale/ old/ cushions not s'thing or other. I dont think I can PM you so my emailisroryc*uplandATh*tmail.c*.uki hope you get that.. (deliberately jumbled).

Can't understand the email address so wait until you have 10 posts and PM me or else email me at 'terrydavidson45@gmail.com'

[Terry Davidson]

Someone messaged me on Facebook but I lost the post. Would you please email me at the address above?