Professional circuit tables

[gmg]

Hi folks, I wonder if anyone can help. I'm looking for an article on the history of tables used on the professional circuit from the 1970's through to the modern day. I'm aware that BCE, Riley and Star tables have all been used in that time but am keen to locate a timeline of when they took over from each other and when the quality of tables improved from those of a club standard to those especially produced for the professional circuit. I know a lot of the 1980's players struggled to cope with these changes when they transpired in the 1990's and am keen to know why. I believe it may also have been something to do with a new make of balls. If anyone can signpost me to an article or another thread here on TSF then that would be much appreciated.

[Geoff Large]

It may shock a few people but steel cushions where not used in the 1970s you can see early design Riley Burwatt starline as one table used
this was a fully paneled in table of plastic or fibre glass panels and the under frame was set on trestle adjusters not legs .
go on you tube look at world championship snooker finals to see the different manufacturers tables used .

Not sure about this but I would say steel cushions became the norm in the very early 1980s when BCE took over .

then around 1990 Riley took over but without those silver legs at first .

But if you are thinking improvements changed the type and manufacture of tables was the key to advancement of the type used you are wrong .

it was how much a manufacturer would give to have their tables on TV tournaments , money not advancement in design is the key to whose tables are used .
as long as the dimensions and pockets conformed to current status money was the key to who got their tables on TV .

Star pay the most at the moment .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS_UaBJFqEI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adO-TFmUTEg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwI9EJeAl5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbJD7EfEfxg

1982 was a BCE westbury
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8NRwR9wD9g

and was still BCE westbury in 1990
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Hx22HMRpY

1998 was a Riley Aristocrat , note the thick Black spot end pocket plates with a small camera inside the leather
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmZsWe-qvtI

just trawl through You tube world snooker finals and you can work it out .

[DeanH]

Professional circuit tables

my friend and I were discussing tables that are used for the World Snooker supplier contract....
Welsh Open had 8 match tables, plus 5(?) practice tables , plus the Eurosport table and possibly a few more in pieces in case of issues. so for one event that is at least 15 tables. So possibly another 15 to go ahead to Gibraltar, whilst the Welsh Open tables get moved the the next.
Possibly Star say that they will deal with the Asian events on behalf of WS.
And possible some cash as part of the contract, that is a lots of assets and logistics for the pro tour
No wonder UK makers back in the day just could not compete when the contract came up for renewal.

[philip in china]

Had you thought about contacting the manufacturers and asking them?

[DeanH]

Had you thought about contacting the manufacturers and asking them?

Bit tricky for some as they no longer exist

[Marketman]

Here is some info on tables used in World Finals from the start of the modern era in 1969 gleaned from the internet.

1969 Riley Burwat
1970 (Apr) Riley Burwat
1970 (Nov) In Australia unknown
1972 Unknown
1973-74 Riley Burwat
1975 In Australia Brunswick
1976 Raper
1977-79 Karnehm & Hillman
1980-81 Riley
1982-93 BCE
1994-09 Riley
2010 to present Star

Please note that this info is for the final only, in the early years of the modern era early rounds were played at various venues and probably used other makes of table.

Going further back in time I Have come up with the following.

1935-40 Finals played at Thurstons Hall so presumably Thurstons
1946 Jelks
1950-51 E J Riley
1964 (Apr) 64 (Oct) 65 (Mar) played at Burroughs Hall so presumably Burroughs & Watts

All other years unknown.

Can anyone (100 upper?) Fill in the gaps particularly the 1972 final ( Alex Higgins v John Spencer) or correct any errors.

Hope this info is of use

[philip in china]

Welcome to the forum, marketman.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of information available on a forum such as this!

[DeanH]

1972 WSC table was a Clare/Padmore/Thurston "new" Jubilee table.

[Marketman]

Many Thanks Dean for the info on 1972 WSC table.

I could not find any photos or film footage anywhere online to give any clue.

[DeanH]

advert in World Snooker

will look into the other gaps see what I can find

[Geoff Large]

Snooker world final of 1977 and 1978 was a Riley Starline as they had dropped the word burwat from their name by then , not sure what table was used in 1979 as video is not clear , but as Riley where still being used in 80 and 81 then it may have been also a Riley

Karnhem and hillman was used in a world billiards final not snooker .
they used to put a plate on K&H tables commemorating the billiards final on early Buckingham tulip legged models .
I have never seen one commemorating a World snooker final championship .

https://gclbilliards.com/karnehm-and...wark-cue-club/

look at this K&H now sold out of Newark cue club , but take a good look at the commemorative plate on one end cushion 1980 billiards championship

[Marketman]

Hi Geoff

My source for the makers of WSC tables for 1977-79 is this very forum from a post made by 100 upper on 22 Dec 2007.

The model used was Karnehm & Hillman Magnus design according to him.

Looking at footage from 1977 the table has a boxed in lower section a bit similar to a starline.

[Marketman]

Sorry that should be 21 Dec 2007.

[Geoff Large]

Hi Geoff

My source for the makers of WSC tables for 1977-79 is this very forum from a post made by 100 upper on 22 Dec 2007.

The model used was Karnehm & Hillman Magnus design according to him.

Looking at footage from 1977 the table has a boxed in lower section a bit similar to a starline.

Could well be be , I was going by boxed in design as a Starline type table .

I have never seen a boxed in K&H or the model Magnus , only time I have heard the name Magnus it was for slate framed tables ?

the three models K&H used where

square leg , turned leg , and tulip leg , all with button cushion bolts not slide in panels .

[gmg]

Many thanks folks, exactly what I was after. So does this infer that the conditions should have been pretty similar at the 1982 World Championship compared to 10 years later in 1992 when BCE was still being used? A comparison of footage from both years would suggest not. The pockets certainly looked bigger in 1982 but the tables also seemed a lot more slugglish. I guess this is probably explained by finer cloths. I've heard a few 80's players say this is why they began to struggle in the early 90's with tables on the professional circuit having less and less resemblance to the club tables they had been brought up on (even though I'm under no illusions that it was also to do with general increases in the standard of play).