Table maintenance

[Geoff Large]

Try to insulate the walls , this will knock off the interior size of the room , but most Garage's are single Brick without a cavity so its the only way , I had an attached Garage on my 2nd house that I turned into a room for playing electric guitar and I had to put an internal insulation and also put a water proof paint before the insulation went on , I took out the Garage door though and bricked up under a new PVCU window where the door used to be , I tagged a new radiator on from the C/heating and that room became the Warmest in the house .

oil fires stink , and youre throat will also suffer with the fumes , you can get a log burner from Machine mart for £95.98p, here's the link http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/pr...ast-iron-stove , scroungeing wood like old pallets should be a bit of a challenge , but some people do it .
a flue can be a simple hole in the wall for an exit http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/se...ategory/page/1 , and then turned upwards outside and above the roof line , with a china mans hat on top . I bet you could prob set one up for around £260 , and that would give a more continuous heat for the Garage , they look safe too as this one is on a stand . a piece of old 2 inch Snooker slate as a hearth and bobs yer uncle .
thats the way I would do it . and I have seen them in Snooker rooms at the bottom of a Garden

and yes use a humidifier in conjunction with a heater . sounds like its the lack of insulation and the cold air thats doing the damage of high humidity and wet walls .

[sklskl]

The rooms insulated, the thermometer has showed a lowest temp so far since winter has kicked in about 10 degrees so not too bad at the moment but you are right about the damp/moist conditions because the cold walls get the condensation effect when heating is put on. We're getting new double glazed windows and doors fitted this week so we should retain more heat than before when fitted.

My thinking is to buy a very good dehumidifier approx 100quid capable of lowering the level of moisture to 50-60%. The only issue then would be heating and I think a oil filled heater like you said before sounds a good idea. The log burner would be fantastic but I don't think I have the money for that and it would require installation and a regular supply of firewood which would cost.

Does my suggestion sound ok? Keep the room warm as possible and the humidity low by sticking a dehumidifier on whenever the humidity is high? or will I always be in trouble because of the cold walls.

[throtts]

You say it is located in youre Garage , has the Garage door been insulated with thick 2 inch polystyrene , youre problem in any outside building that is not insulated well is how to protect damp getting into the room in the first place , any outside garage or garden building is going to get realy cold at this time of year , as soon as you want to go in there and play Pool , the heating will cause condensation to form on any cold surface , Garage door / windows / single brick wall / Slate in the table / even the table body will get damp .
I think the problem is the Garage you are useing as a Room is just not suitable to keep anything dry in there , you cannot play in freezing conditons and heating will cause high Humidity and cold surfaces will be wet to touch , even a small home humidifier will struggle to cope in those conditions .
yes the polystyrene will keep damp off the cloth , but as soon as you lift the polystyrene off , the humidity in the room will be absorbed into the cloth .

Have you thought of putting a log burner in the Garage with an outside flu , this is far lower cost to run than Gas or electric heating .
but you must place it somewhere safe and on none flamable suroundings , no old paint tins around or old oil petrol cans etc and place that sheet of Ploystyrene out of its direct heat .
my next door nieghbour has just installed a log burner in her house , and it is the best thing for low cost heating . provideing you can get the wood free for burning .

I have under floor heating for a constant even heat, you can simply set the thermostat to frost protect. Maybe thats worth a look, even in a garage.

[Geoff Large]

A large bit of polystyrene costs 21quid delivered from Wickes. Is it worth it then if it won't protect it from the humidity that much?

I'll aim to fit an air vent in the corner of the room this should increase air flow in and out of the room. Looks like I might have to pay up for a dehumidifier or maybe an air conditioning unit and I can use it in the summer as well...

You say it is located in youre Garage , has the Garage door been insulated with thick 2 inch polystyrene , youre problem in any outside building that is not insulated well is how to protect damp getting into the room in the first place , any outside garage or garden building is going to get realy cold at this time of year , as soon as you want to go in there and play Pool , the heating will cause condensation to form on any cold surface , Garage door / windows / single brick wall / Slate in the table / even the table body will get damp .
I think the problem is the Garage you are useing as a Room is just not suitable to keep anything dry in there , you cannot play in freezing conditons and heating will cause high Humidity and cold surfaces will be wet to touch , even a small home humidifier will struggle to cope in those conditions .
yes the polystyrene will keep damp off the cloth , but as soon as you lift the polystyrene off , the humidity in the room will be absorbed into the cloth .

Have you thought of putting a log burner in the Garage with an outside flu , this is far lower cost to run than Gas or electric heating .
but you must place it somewhere safe and on none flamable suroundings , no old paint tins around or old oil petrol cans etc and place that sheet of Ploystyrene out of its direct heat .
my next door nieghbour has just installed a log burner in her house , and it is the best thing for low cost heating . provideing you can get the wood free for burning .

[sklskl]

A large bit of polystyrene costs 21quid delivered from Wickes. Is it worth it then if it won't protect it from the humidity that much?

I'll aim to fit an air vent in the corner of the room this should increase air flow in and out of the room. Looks like I might have to pay up for a dehumidifier or maybe an air conditioning unit and I can use it in the summer as well...

[Geoff Large]

Geoff am I good to buy some polystyrene to put on top of the table combined with a plastic cover to protect from high humidity?

Yes it will protect it against cold more than humidity though , don't forget the slate will absorb cold from underneath ( not on a pool table though due to enclosed body ) as well as from above . when a room is heated from cold the slate sometimes sweat and then the cloth absorbs this dampness , an ideal situation would be for the room never to drop below 60'% F , but with the costs involved doing that it is not within everyone's pocket to afford this .

[sklskl]

Geoff am I good to buy some polystyrene to put on top of the table combined with a plastic cover to protect from high humidity?

Edit: I managed to get the inclinometer, got it for 23 quid used so not bad, I believe it retaills about 130 new. I offered the guy 20quid inc del for the rabone level but he was slow to reply so I just went for this. Should improve the table levle immensely.

[sklskl]

inclinometers are ok , I would try the one I pictured as I can vouch for it being very good , not the chinese ones that are advertised on ebay , bosch also do one incorperated into a small alloy level .. they also can be calibrated by setting on a flat surface , press calibrate button once , then turn the level around 180% on the same spot and press calibrate button once again , and then it will be ready for any leveling .
over the two I would always recomend the the engineers level , the inclinometer can also be too accurate and you may find youreself going round and around in circles and the table getting higher and higher , but i would not dismiss the inclonometer they are good tools .

right I'm just about falling to sleep , done a 13 hour day today , and we brought in a very nice 8ft Ayers table from down south made around 1870 with rotating cue stand and matching ayres scoreboard . 3 piece slate bed on a subframe and screw down feet on the legs ...very Rare . also had a nice view of Stonehenge on the way back as we passed it .

Hmmmm, yeh I just like the look of the rabone level. Both are being sold tomorrow I'll try pick up one or the other hopefully.

[Geoff Large]

inclinometers are ok , I would try the one I pictured as I can vouch for it being very good , not the chinese ones that are advertised on ebay , bosch also do one incorperated into a small alloy level .. they also can be calibrated by setting on a flat surface , press calibrate button once , then turn the level around 180% on the same spot and press calibrate button once again , and then it will be ready for any leveling .
over the two I would always recomend the the engineers level , the inclinometer can also be too accurate and you may find youreself going round and around in circles and the table getting higher and higher , but i would not dismiss the inclonometer they are good tools .

right I'm just about falling to sleep , done a 13 hour day today , and we brought in a very nice 8ft Ayers table from down south made around 1870 with rotating cue stand and matching ayres scoreboard . 3 piece slate bed on a subframe and screw down feet on the legs ...very Rare . also had a nice view of Stonehenge on the way back as we passed it .

[sklskl]

Apologies Geoff,

I'll have a look at those levels get one and see how I get on, thanks for your help much appreciated.

Edit: Think I might go for the digital one, theres one at the moment going which is used same one as your's hopefully I'll get that one. If I don't win that is any inclinometer ok?

I liked the first Rabone one you showed me.

[Geoff Large]

Thanks for that Dave, I should get round to buying one soon. Is there a trusted method to use when levelling it up?

I think you mean Geoff .

get the table level width ways first by finding the high leg , the point on the table that is high , by placeing the engineers level at each end width ways adjust the wind down feet until both ends are level .
Then place the engineers level lenth ways in the centre of the table , and lift one end up until the table shows level in the centre .
the table if the body has not sagged will now be level .
if sagged and you find this out by slideing the engineers level from its middle position towards an end cushion in its lenth ways position , you may find that the bubble moves towards the cusion at each end , this indicates that the table is dished , and if a winner use the strip pyramid cloth method to get this out .

Some pool table recoverers ( and I used to do this many years ago when first starting ) glue cloth not only on the side of the slate but sometimes under the slate around the edges , this will lift the ends of the slate up on winner type tables and also cause a bow in the slate , all pool table slates should not have cloth under the slate when it is recovered , I always glue a bit under the pocket falls though , as this is my prefered method of being 100% sure the cloth will not come off the slate at the pocket falls .
and I always use spreadable contact adeisive not spray on glue which is in my opinion useless and is the cause of cloths coming off the slate within a few days of a recover .

Right I'm off to Yeovil to pickup a table for storage then onto oxford to pick up a Bar billiards Table for rental stock .

Geoff

[philip in china]

It is very humid here. Also many buildings are badly constructed and can be quite damp.

I have a very big dehumidifier. My apartment is small- between 60 & 70 square metres so, say, about 200 cubic metres volume. The big one makes a huge difference to the entire apartment once I get it running. My old bungalow was very damp. It always felt much healthier with the machine running. Obviously with rising damp a dehumidifier cannot solve the problem as it just sucks more damp up but it can dry out the air.

When I was in UK I had a smaller unit- I don't remember the name. That had a humidistat but I don't know how reliable that was. I just used to leave it going until I was comfortable. I used that to dry out a utility room which we built that had a very large amount of concrete in it. Once that was finished my then wife used to take the thing to help her dry out laundry. Any emulsion paint or wallpaper we applied you could almost see drying. They are one of those things most poeople manage without but once you have had one you wouldn't want to be without.

Ah I see, it' not a big deal for me at the moment but I may sort it out the next time the table is unlevel because that top is heavy!

Surprised that pyramind method would work in the middle of the table despite the weight of the slate. Howcomes you know so much about tables etc are you a supplier?

Philip I'm guessing the humidity where you play must be a lot worse due to the heat. I may invest in one but I'm not sure what size yet becauese the room is about 35m2.

[sklskl]

Thanks for that Dave, I should get round to buying one soon. Is there a trusted method to use when levelling it up?

[Geoff Large]

engineers levels are the best level to use on any cue sports table , they are used to level flat beds on machines for engineering , so are the ideal tool for a billiard table and on any slate bed table , they will show you the lows and highs of a slate , the builders level can be 0.30 out per metre of slate and thats a good quality one like a STABILA , thats enough to turn a ball though and the bubble on the builders level would show correct , the engineers level would prob show one side of the bubble touching a line or just over it .

makes to look out for is Rabone and chesterman ....Moore and wright ...and for our USA and Canada residents ...Starret .

All billiard table fitters that i have met use an engineers level or an engineers vial on an home made body like this


also see this on ebay if you fancy making a level youreself
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRASS-SPIR...item3cb97bd3b1

the vials on these two levels are from ex MOD use like a gun turret on anti aircarft ex world war two ?
But they are not as good as the Rabone and chesterman one that I posted before on this thread . although that one is a 12 inch version which I use for a full sized snooker table , you could prob use a 6 or 8 inch version , but the price on that 12 inch is a good one for abuy me now price on ebay .
they are adjustable and you should find a surface and mark a box around the level turn it one way then turn it the other , adjust the nut until both ways read the same , then it is correct for use .

another on ebay smaller one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-J-...item336d76ad33

and an 18 inch one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engineers-...item45fdf41686


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Moore-Wrig...item3f0f47493d
one to avoid because it is TOO ACURATE is a GG tubed moore and wright , these levels have segmented red lines as in the photos on ebay , please do not buy this type as you will be chasing the bubble all night long trying to level it , the slate is not as accurate as this level measures for .
Believe me i bought one when I first started 36 years ago and had to settle for the bubble reading mark of anywhere between the 2nd gradiant on this type of level becuase i just could not get a table to be 100% , it is that accurate that if you put a £5 note under one end the bubble would move 2 digits out of level .

If you fancy something a bit more modern you could use one of these , i have one for leveling the frame work up on full sized tables , they have acontinuous beep when it is level as well as a reading on the screen .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fisco-Sola...item2a14f6dd68


Now i know a few of you will go out there and buy these levels and try to adjust tables or check the local club table and find that the slate is not as accurate to level as you would think especialy on full size snooker tables where mass production of low cost tables in the 1980s have some shocking sets of slates which are not even fit for garden paths .
So when an experienced fitter tells you that youre slates are not good then take his word for it , as we try to get the tables as level as we can , we are always restricted by how accurate these tables where made from new , thats the tollerance we have to work to .
there are a lot of dished ( concave ) slates out there . and a few warped frames , and warped pool table bodies EVEN FROM NEW !!!, pool table slates are only 5/8ths thick so if the body that the slate sits in is not good then the slate will not be level and will be twisted or dipped in the middle .

[sklskl]

Just had a quick go on the table and the baulk end seems worse now......Is the engineers level the most accurate instrument?

I used a normal builders level before and did the cue ball roll test into each corner pocket and across.