Table maintenance

[Geoff Large]

Ah I see, it' not a big deal for me at the moment but I may sort it out the next time the table is unlevel because that top is heavy!

Surprised that pyramind method would work in the middle of the table despite the weight of the slate. Howcomes you know so much about tables etc are you a supplier?

No a time served billiards fitter who has come across these problems and solved them , iv'e seen a few ways of getting bows out of the slate , a pool table has 4 corner legs or on older tables two end bench legs , nothing to support the centre of the slate , as the slate is only 5/8th thick it sags after time , ALL POOL TABLES do this I have not come across one that will not eventualy sag , I am realy surprised that manufacturers do not put an internal jacking device to adjust any future sagging out , something that could be adjusted from under the table ?
But until then the best method on winners is the thin strips of cloth forming a gradual pyramid , I've used this method on tables in clubs where other fitters have failed to correct a bow saying to the owner sorry the tables bowed it's a manufacturing problem , i recentley leveled 4 tables in Newark cue club this way and two at stapleford cue club , also put carpet tile in the end section where the balls drop into , including a strip of carpet tile at the very end where the balls clatter , this gets rid of any anoying clattering when balls fall into end section , you can also repeat this for the cue ball exit , of course if it is a home play then all balls come out at one end .

if you have a small 2.5 x 4 foot table the same height as the pool table you can shuffle the slate out onto this , to gain access to the inner part , winner top surrounds can be unclipped off , just unclip the string retainers , and if you let the top go back a few degrees the hinges are part open to allow the top to be removed , best if two of you do this , but I do it on my own , don't let the top fall back or you will damge it .

Geoff

[sklskl]

Ah I see, it' not a big deal for me at the moment but I may sort it out the next time the table is unlevel because that top is heavy!

Surprised that pyramind method would work in the middle of the table despite the weight of the slate. Howcomes you know so much about tables etc are you a supplier?

Philip I'm guessing the humidity where you play must be a lot worse due to the heat. I may invest in one but I'm not sure what size yet becauese the room is about 35m2.

[Geoff Large]

Fan heaters have open elements , oil filled radiators are sealed and therfore better to leave on when no one is around .
they are thermostat controlled and can be put on a timer .

Sounds like you have slate sag . so take slate out and use the cloth strips as described stapled on top of the two inner slate supports that run the lenth of the table to lift the slate upwards in the centre , DO not put packing under in the centre of the slate like a few beer mats COWBOYS do this and it may result in a broken slate , you have to use long lenths of cloth strips , then the slate is supported gradualy as you staple shorter lenths on top of the longer lenths , building up a pyrimid .
like 4 foot then 3 foot then 2 foot etc until you have the bow out .

the level below is ideal .
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rabone-Eng...item3a6bd03001

[philip in china]

Dehumidifier

A dehumidifier can work wonders in a room.

[sklskl]

Ah I hate when you write a long message and it gets deleted!

Thing is when I got the table I played a cross table shot where the ball was tight on the cushion and it rolled along the cushion sweetly but as I said now the ball slightly moves away from cushion.

Could you recommend a level from ebay I don't really have a clue if you don't mind.

When the room was really damp before we sorted it out you said to put polystyrene on top and it would protect the cloth should i still do that just as a precaution to protect it from the high humidity? I opened the doors and windows recently and it reduced the humidity by over 5% but it's impossible to always do that or keep the room heated because it's in a detached room.

It is ok to use a fan heater like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3KW-INDUST...item27b65b4541

or should it always be oil filled?

I've read about cleaning chalk of the cloth and people have said brush whilst some say use that spray thingy but I don't want to use any chemicals on the cloth I just don't trust it. With the brush method some say that all it does is push the chalk into the cloth.
Do you have any suggestions to sort that out.

Thank

[Geoff Large]

humidity is a problem with any cue sports table , hard woods tend to not move much , but a winner is made from fibre board and if this gets any dampness absorbed into is , then it can swell slightly .
The winner has a two support board on their sides system running the entire lenth of the tables slate , they can sag slightley or dip which ever you want to look at it .
I find taking the slate out and putting say a 4 foot strip of old snooker cloth useing a centre mark on the two supports , 2 foot either side staple this on , then useing a 3 foot piece staple this on top of the 4ft strip , then useing a 2 ft piece staple this ontop of the 3ft piece , what we are trying to achieve is to lift the centre of the slate up by forming a pyramid of gradual cloth strips stapled to each slate support , this will take the dip out of the slate centre .
you realy need to buy an engineers level , as pool tables will require regular checking , more so than a heavy slated snooker table . and an engineers level will also let you know if you have slate sag . a normal spirit level is not good enough . look on ebay for engineers level but do not buy the GG tube version with red gradual markings they are too accurate and you will be chasing the bubble all night long , just get a normal two line version with black markings .
You can if it is a coin mech winner , make two tubes with a flat plate on one end and a bolt and nut that slips inside the tube to make 2 small lifting jacks by adjusting the lower nut against the tube the bolt extends upawards lifting the slate bearer , these are placed under the gap of the centre slate supports and the inner cabinet floor as you can gain acess to this point by taking the side out , on none coin mech tables there is no gap under , so the supports go to the bottom of the tables inner floor support so use the strip cloth method .

Iron the cloth on a regular basis and try and keep the room warm as the cloth will absorb damp .

a small oil filled radiator under the table will help , and if you like get a hole cutter and cut a few holes in the under floor so that heat can be absorbed into the slate and keep the inner slate supports dry . I do not recomend putting heaters inside the table though .
Small floor mounted sealed oil filled rads are best .

[sklskl]

Pledge has waxes and some furniture or household polishes even have silicon in them , balls are to kept free from grease and other slippery substances ..... use a proper ball polish available from most cue sports stockists .
I recomend just a bowl of warm soapy water , one ball at a time emerse in water and clean , buff up on a dry towel . do not put all the balls in the bowl to soak , only one ball at a time .
Cue balls require replaceing at least 3 times in a set of balls lifespan , due to contact all the time with the cue tip and chalk which scuffs the balls surface .
Cheap chinese balls suffer from impact marks more than top makers balls .....

Thanks Geoff, also much appreciation in an old thread with helping me choose a supreme winner.

I have one last question, the new table I've put in my garage is quite humid, I bought a hygrometer recently and I got reading of 73% and I noticed from when I bought the table to within a week the table had proper sped up. It's fine I enjoy a speedy table but there are a lot of scratches with the white ball and I want to reduce the humidity so I've increased the ventilation in the room. Is there any other way I can improve the consistency with the way the cloth plays?

I also notice when I first got the table shots tight on the cushion were smooth but now when I try cutting a ball tight to the cushion it always moves away from the cushion. Any help would be great thanks.

[Geoff Large]

Pledge has waxes and some furniture or household polishes even have silicon in them , balls are to kept free from grease and other slippery substances ..... use a proper ball polish available from most cue sports stockists .
I recomend just a bowl of warm soapy water , one ball at a time emerse in water and clean , buff up on a dry towel . do not put all the balls in the bowl to soak , only one ball at a time .
Cue balls require replaceing at least 3 times in a set of balls lifespan , due to contact all the time with the cue tip and chalk which scuffs the balls surface .
Cheap chinese balls suffer from impact marks more than top makers balls .....

[sklskl]

I used to used to 'pledge'em'up'. That and a yellow duster. Worked for me!

I was thinking the same thing, but a few people said use it online some said don't.

I will now, thanks for clearing that up.

[Deepscrew]

I used to used to 'pledge'em'up'. That and a yellow duster. Worked for me!

[sklskl]

Have just been through this thread some good tips. Just got my new supreme winner 7x4 yesterday, really pleased with it thanks to Dave who supplied and levelled it up. Just wanted some tips on cleaning the pool balls especially the white ball. What would you recommend?

[bricktip]

just tried it, and the ball is wondering off course quite badly, although to be fair it's doing it in places where there isn't a slate joint as well.

[bricktip]

He used a disc sander but only on the bits that were filled to get them flush. He used body filler. It's worth noting that the slates are already 24 years old and are Gioffra, so they are probably not perfect because of the age and i dont know the history of the table, whether it's been moved much etc. Quite a bit of filler was needed on some of the joints due to chips. He used small wooden wedges between slate and frame to get the joints level, although this was very a very minute amount it has to be said. Sanding was not done to correct slate levels as you talk about. I'm happy with the slate joints.

Re: final paragraph
I'll go and try that and get back to you, if i can figure out exactly where the joints are. I suppose i can look underneath to find them and then try and follow it up to the bed.

[Geoff Large]

If he used a power disc sander then I'm afraid he may have put low spots in the slate , some fitters use Car body filler in the joints others use Plaster of paris , I use both depending on type of table condition of joints etc ,but the car body filler has to be EASY SAND , and always use a wood sanding block and sand paper not a power sander .

Did he use the power disc sander on the Joints ?

Joints can sometimes be a problem especialy if chinese or low quality slate , sometimes a playing card has to be used to adjust the lip out of the joint , placed between slate and frame , now on a perfect frame and perfect floated slates NOTHING should be between slate and frame , It,s bad fitters who make a mess of a perectley good table this way , they cannot get the joints right so turn to a belt or disc sander to sand them in , the trade has changed over the years from a pair of fitters who took a table out on a van and assembled the table and took all day at it , to the speed merchant fitters who go on low prices and speed to get as much done in a day as posiible i call them the HIT AND RUN SQUAD .
and it is something that realy gets my back up , following these cowboys around and trying to put right what they have ruined .

an example is someone had took a sander to a set of slates to blend the joints in , sanding the high lip from one side of the joint so that it did not show through the cloth , 2 years later the client moves house , we take the table down and point out that someone has butchered the slate joints , when the table goes back up level , the joints are now looking bad , the high point that the cowboy sanded out is now a low point which has to be filled and feathered in by hand sanding , or if to be fully cured the entire set of slates refloated which is expensive .

bricktip , I'm afraid the pople who have been let loose on youre table have prob done some damage , and describing ball run offs and now disc sanding of slate proves to me that the table has now been damaged , the creaking you can get out by tightening the frame bolts , No L shape brackets under the frame please you should not have to fit anything like these to a table , the 10ft BCE in london did have a few bolts loose in the frame which I tightend up . I tried to get some movement out of the leg joints but no creaking could be heard .

If you have any photo's of the fitter useing this disc sander please post them , you realy should have youre own level and jack kit plus a few shims being as you are far from the uk , rabone and chesterman levels can sometimes come up on ebay for under £30 , check also for metal level or just spirit levels as many do not know they are engineers levels it may be that Grandads tools in the shed have to go and they just list them as a job lot or describe the level as just a level , they must look like the ones I posted links to though , always adjust the level by jacking up the side frame only NEVER the ends or middle sections under the table .


Now go on the table and slowly roll a ball over the lenth of the joints ,if i am a betting man i'd say they deflect all over the place on the high and low spots he has created with the disc sander . or a shallow trench ? my hunch was correct over they way the cloth had been fitted to those slate falls , so maybe i'm right about the joints .
Geoff

[bricktip]

He did use a disc sander to go over the slates after doing the filler, and i went round and checked it, so i don't think it's the chalk thing on the baulk cushion. The cloth is WOE 6811 gold, and i've brushed, blocked and ironed it a few times to try and help (it was creased from being folded), although getting under the baulk cushion is not as effective as doing the rest of the cloth as it's difficult to get to without the risk of burning something. Btw, i have a dowsings thermostatic iron.

He does have an expensive level that he said cost about 300 euros, but i can't remember what it is. It certainly looked the business and was about 12 inches.