Table maintenance

[philip in china]

Bricktip, Cellulose thinners is much mre volatile and a much better solvent than ordinary thinners. They really are very different- like the difference between say petrol and paraffin.

[philip in china]

I have discovered something really strange today. As I have said previously I brush, block and iron my table pretty well every day. Today I looked at the cloth on the block. It has developed a build up of what I can best describe as a black tarry residue. It is only ever used to block the table so what could it be? I have absolutely no idea.

[Geoff Large]

Sweat off youre hands transfered to the table cloth and balls then transfered back onto the block when you wipe it down , sometimes you get it in clubs as a build up on the cushion edge and ontop of the cushion woodwork , sweat is excreated with salt and any other muck that is in the cloth or on the balls tends to stick to it , the build up is sometimes consistant to wax , you must be playing that table often to get a build up Phil .

[philip in china]

This table gets quite a bit of use. I hope my next one will get a good deal more!

[bricktip]

Bricktip, Cellulose thinners is much mre volatile and a much better solvent than ordinary thinners. They really are very different- like the difference between say petrol and paraffin.

What about nitrocellulose thinners? Is there a difference? That's what they seem to sell here in the B&Q style shop.

[philip in china]

Nitrocellulose I don't know. Trinitro cellulose is guncotton so if you do use that stuff I recommend caution! Maybe get some and try it on a bit of scrap cloth and see how it works.

[bricktip]

Sounds a bit 'DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!'

[philip in china]

One of the historians will correct me if I am wrong but I think I heard that some early balls for snooker were made from some form of nitrocellulose.

Of course all you trinitrates are "interesting", Trinitro glycerine is what puts the bang in dynamite and gelignite and trinitrotoluene is our old friend TNT. Better stop now or special branch will be closing the site!

[inevermissblue]

Hi folks! PLEASE READ THIS AND PASS IT ON! This is probably the most valuable and exciting advice i have ever been given. Furthermore... the more i read on this forum about peoples concerns regarding conditions, wear and tear etc. just makes this all the more necessary to share!
I like so many others who clean tables, have done the usual brush, pad and iron. Again and again and again. Over time we just accept that the slide from newly fitted cloth will disappear and just become yet another ordinary table. Despite varying cleaning regimes, the table will look clean and play to a tolerable level...Until now!!!!!
I was advised by fellow player, who has been playing for well over 30 years, and cleaning tables for just as long. I noticed that the club he cleans tables for has the best playing characteristics i have ever seen, apart from the effect of newly fitted cloth or televised tournaments. So i asked him what 'else' he does to the table??? Now i know that the table fitters use Starch on the middle pockets to aid the fitting off the cloth as the starch hardens the cloth to protect the cut needed for the curvature of the slate! or words to that effect. Well... we did try this Spray Starch on our table at our club. Bearing in mind that it has a bed cloth, long overdue to be replaced!!! So thought, why not! Well i have to say that the results were staggering!!!
What we did was to remove the dust, of which there was lots due to the cover not being used for some considerable time. i Ligthtly vacuumed the table. Then i brushed the table to get the stubborn dust out. Then Slightly vacuumed again with our handheld vac ( Draper Handheld) Absolutely made for Snooker Tables!!! Then i padded the table. Now for the magic!!!
Spray Starch costs about a quid from most places. I used the aerosol type.
So...with the iron switched on, i gave the bed cloth a light covering of the Spray Starch holding it quite high so that it covers the entire playing surface with a mist. Then we got an unused/new table brush(soley for the starch). I then brushed the starch into the bed cloth as you would with the iron, in one motion. Then finally ironed the table.
The results were incredible!!! We proceeded to play with cleaned TC balls and it changed the conditions like you would not believe!!! The slide from off the cushions had returned as if it was a new cloth. No more square bounces and believe me or not we played for 3 hours, and had 1 kick!!! Remember! this was a well past its used by date cloth that we had no more time for. This i must guess has given it at least another 12 months playability. I mean real playing conditions!!! I was told to only use the starch once a month to just help to restore the slide from the bed cloth!!! Well you know what they say...Seeing is believing.... I for one am a big believer!!!! My love for the game has reached new heights! However...Its very frustrating to now play elsewhere on 'ordinary' 'cleaned' tables!
Can't wait til i next see the guy, as he had a drink coming his way!!! I salute you sir!

TSFers! Don't deprive yourselves of infinite enjoyment! DIY!!!!!!!!!! You will not regret it!

I know that there maybe differing opinions to this advice, but the results speak for themselves and if this restores a table back to new playing conditions them i'm 100% behind it, as the benefits far outway any negatives!

PLEASE SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCES!!!

[Geoff Large]

The use of starch when fitting cloth is for american pool cloth which slackens off very easy . I use it all the time on tables at Butlins on the american pool tables when fitting new cloth .

The use of starch on napped pure wool cloth will send it hard like cardboard , while you have good results on your worn out cloth and I have no objection to anyone using it on worn cloth after the 1st re-stretch of bed cloth ,

NEVER use it on new cloth that has to have a re-stretch at some point in it's life as trying to stretch cloth that is as stiff as cardboard is not going to happen .
The use of a little water spray around the middle pocket on the TV no 10 cloth is to shrink any wrinkles out of this hard to stretch and form around the middle falls , as you iron it the cloth shrinks because it is wool and it has been damp , look on TV and you will see the water marks around the middle falls , this is just a damp spray or damp fingers to put the water into the cloth around the fall .
I have never seen anyone use starch on Pure new wool cloths and would not recommend it as it sends it like cardboard .

So if you are never going to have your bed cloth's re-stretched by all means use the starch , but if you expect to re stretch the cloth at some point half way through the cloths life span then do not use it .

I have to look at it from a fitters point of view and not a players , and I would be cursing if someone had sprayed starch on a cloth I had to re-stretch .

American pool cloth is much different to pure new wool napped snooker cloth , I think what has happened is a cross over of someone trying starch they normally use on the speed cloth fitting of american pool tables to the middle pocket falls of a full size snooker table in place of the damp water and shrinking with the heat of the iron to form perfect around the falls , then thought what would happen if I sprayed the whole cloth .

I think someone should write to Strachan and hear their views of using starch on their product .

[inevermissblue]

Hi Geoff! Well this is a good starting point. As since i started to use this product on our match table, we have'nt looked back! Its totally transformed the table, bringing it close to near new conditions. Coupled with the use of cleaned/polished match balls.
We were unaware of the implications for table fitters when needing to stretch the cloth. Fortunately this didn't apply to us as this cloth is fairly old anyway, hence our recent research to try to revive it!
So...We have got a winning formula here by the looks of it! Basically if you have a worn cloth(post stretch), then it will greatly benefit the use of starching, once a month.
We played a league match last night on an untreated, worn clothed table and we instantly noticed the difference. Very greasy, lots of kicks, uncleaned match balls. Was the most unpleasant experience ive had since doing what weve done!
So i would urge any clubs out there who maybe considering a recover, to try what we have done and see how long their new lease of life actually lasts for!!!

[Geoff Large]

But it will not replace nap on a worn out cloth which is the basis of good cue ball control , a smooth cloth will skid a decent napped cloth will grip the cue ball better. This is well documented by Professional players .

another point I would like to point out is the starch residue sticking to the iron , make sure any starch is well brushed into the cloth and not left on top for the iron to glaze it to the base of the iron plate . as this will cause problems to ironing other tables especially new clothed tables if starch residue is still on the sole plate.

I cannot disagree the fact that you have found the cloth to play better in your club , but take notice of what I am saying about the other aspects of the game and mostly in the track marks and the control of the cue ball .
I know for a fact that you will not get any more life out of the cloth , once worn it is worn and cannot be made as new by just spraying starch onto it , the starch may make it play better , but it will still look worn out .

I have had many comments that a new cloth has much better cue ball control qualities than worn cloth , I am not a player as such although I do understand screw back side swerve and forward kick techniques to the art of controlling a cue ball for better position for the next line up of the next ball to be potted.

neither will the track marks in the corner pockets be revitalised to the same thickness of a new cloth so I just cannot see the basis of the claim that it can prolong the life of a worn out cloth .
once the corner track marks are half way through worn of the thickness of the cloth , there is a danger of it wearing through to the slate in a very short time as the weave is disintegrating or for a much better description falling apart as the weave is so worn it cannot hold together much more , spraying starch onto this area may bond it for a few more hours , but I doubt,t it would put weeks or even months of wear back into the cloth .

I have experimented with starch on cloths , especially some low priced all man made fibre american pool cloths , and found it an aid to help form the cloth into the corner and middle pocket falls and help stop the cloth slackening off , other good quality cloths do not require the aid of starch to stop slackening off as we get them tight especially the pure new wool napped cloths as used on Snooker / billiard tables .

I think if you put it to the vote , more players would prefer to play on Brand new recovered tables and just stretched tables rather than a worn out cloth sprayed with Starch .

by all means if you are gaining some sort of better playing on a worn out all wool stretched cloth using this starch , then carry on using it , but I know the control of a cue ball is much better on a new or part worn cloth than one sprayed with Starch .
Also keep the starch away from the cushion cloth as stiff cushion cloth will lessen the bounce from the rubber .

Do not confuse ball travel distance on a worn out cloth being better than a new cloth as it is well known that no resistance in the instance of no nap will allow for a faster table and therefore much greater distance of ball travel , that is why they produce match cloths with very short thin nap so that you get the greater ball travel from newly fitted cloth , When I talk about cue ball control it is the initial swerve or back kick or forward kick on the cue balls reaction on the new cloth , you should be able to turn a ball on a new cloth by applying the right stab on the ball much better with nap under the ball , rather than a worn out one.
you may get greater distance off the rubber on a worn out cloth , but doubt you will get better cue ball control .

Just good old fashioned brushing and ironing on a regular basis , the recommend time is every 10 hours of use , brush napper and iron , At my local club the match table gets ironed every day
as well as the normal Table maintenance , the Match table should also get an iron before the match nights .
Do this and the table plays much better than un-brushed and un-ironed greasy finger marked tables , cleaning balls should be done too , there are good ball polishing products out there .

[inevermissblue]

I think we are on two different wave lengths here! I read previously that you say it wont bring the cloth back to life, and will remain worn. I have do disagree...As the cloth has evidently got a more richer colour to it now, and now feels very clean and slick to the touch than before the treatment. Also you mentioned ball control. The ball control on what you would call 'a good old fashioned brushed, padded and ironed table' significantly loses its basic ball control properties!!! This alone was the purpose of my investigation. The need to tackle the grease and grime that accumulates into a bed cloth.
There are so many aspects of the game that appear to be overlooked to a certain degree. This all started with an experience i encountered on a 'good old fashioned cleaned table' which to my horror, had lost all aspects of ball control needed to play the game to a basic degree. As it was far too grippy. Making it impossible to hold for a black with bottom from a red say a foot away from the corner bag shooting from the baulk. The cueball always followed onto the top cushion. I was beside myself with amazement that this shot was no longer available to play!!! So this is where my initial enquiries began.
So this tells me that a recently streched, regularly cleaned table is ever more subject to the grease build up. Then by the sounds of it is just being re-distributed by the table iron. This practise alone should be deemed as neglectful. People just seem to be oblivious to this or at most choose to overlook it, some may even start to re-evaluate their own game to accommodate! which is ridiculous! I hope that you can now understand what im trying to say???
Its the grease that seems to be tackled by using the starch. Traditional cleaning regimes do not even address this. Please bear in mind that the table in question had nap, looked clean but was too grippy, taking away imparted spin 'instantly'!!!

[Geoff Large]

Ah well there we have to disagree , because starch is not a cleaning agent so will not remove grease it will only form a stiff cover over it which is what you are doing , unlike acetone type cleaning fluids which do dissolve grease to the surface and this can then be brushed off . we use acetone to clean the old baulk line off before a re-stretch .
Most cans of cloth cleaner have some sort of acetone agent in its cleaning action diluted down a bit from pure acetone because it will make you feel drowsy if it was 100% .

In some ways you can also describe Starch as a glue paste if mixed thick enough with warm water you can actually stick wallpaper on the wall with it .
I would not recommend using it on wool based cloth with nap or fluffy weave because all it will do is paste the fibres together making it stiff .
Now for the american pool cloth which is much thinner cloth not napped , and has a reputation of going slack and wrinkles appearing around the pockets and the bed cloth becoming very loose , there is a call for using a starch that will stiffen the cloth and prevent it from wrinkling up .

I do not have a problem with anyone using it on their own tables after the cloth is past it sell by date .
And I still stick by what I said about the starch not being able to reform the cloth back from the worn out state to make it last for months longer than if it was just left .
I would say the ball reaction is just gripping the starch coating on the worn cloth and therefore you are experiencing some sort of better ball control , but it will not miraculously make the cloth as new . it will remain worn especially around the ball track marks into the corner pockets , it will not thicken the cloth up but will just coat it in a starch .
and if you spray the cushion cloth then the rubber is also restricted by the stiffening of the cloth that it is wrapped in .
Starch has been around in use for stiffening garments for years , I have used it on American pool tables for over 15 years , but never used it on napped cloth especially pure new wool based cloth.

if you look on TV and look very close around the middle pocket falls of the star tables you will see some light staining around the falls picked up by the cameras HD sometimes as a yellow staining , this is where the fitter has dampened the cloth by damp hands or by water spray to shrink the cloth to form better using the iron to do the shrinking ,
when the iron hits the damp cloth it is like boiling or washing wool on a hot wash , it will shrink .

As I have said some fitter may have got the idea it was starch they used or decided to use starch in place of water and then decided to spray the whole bed cloth in it too .
I and the manufacturer of the cloth see no reason to use starch on a napped pure wool cloth .
if it was a good thing to do , all us Billiard fitters would be using it . don't forget I have been using it for 15 years on american pool tables but never on wool napped Billiards cloth.
Try using the spray on cloth cleaner in place of the starch and see if that makes a difference, I have been informed by Pool players that is does. but then again the average life span of a pool cloth on UK pool tables is just 6 months taking into account winter and summer leagues

As for a richer colour , of course the cloth has taken on a different hue , you have just coated it in a thin coat of starch that is not going to evaporate , much like a coat of varnish would bring out the grain on wood , the starch may have a little effect of changing the colour to a slightly darker shade , but you place a square of brand new cloth on top and see what new cloth shade should really be .

I think some players expect too much out of the cloth these days , they see tables on TV which have a re-cover every three days playing faultless and good cue ball control on thin new number 10 Strachan cloth , table in clubs have to last at least 2 years and it is normal process for the cloth to drop off as it ages , you may have found something that brings a little of the life back into the cloth coating it in Starch , but it also has it's drawbacks and pitfalls that I hope I have explained like cushion cloth stiffening resulting in less re-bound , stiff cloth that if requiring a stretch it is not going to be possible . also clumping and binding of chalk dust within the weave , these are things I have noticed on pool table's sprayed with starch on . Ask any fitter who the worst customers are for complaining about cloth speed and rebound values and they will all say semi pro's to the better players in clubs , the main 95% of players do not even notice such things and never complain .
My main complaint I hear every week almost is , we want our table to play like those on TV , well I say buy one of those star tables then because this table is never going to play like it, and I bet most fitters on here have heard this too .

[inevermissblue]

I can willingly absorb what you're telling me with regards to the starch only providing a cover to the grease, stopping it from affecting playing conditions. Although i'd like to think that it does actually tackle the grease, as this is what we wanted to address. Which brings me to my next point. I know that it is not recommended to vacuum bed cloth as this removes the filler from slate joins! So...would'nt it be a good idea to produce a tin foil underlay for the bed cloth on the entire surface??? This would allow you to remove as much dirt and dust as possible. Plus it would help to radiate the heat if table heaters were used, plus it would protect the slate joins!
Given what you have said about the properties of starch, i think that something else needs to be found to actually address the grease which affects the spin on ageing tables. From new to post stretch!
In tournaments they usually re-cover the table for semi-final or final say at the crucible. This tells me that they know that the table will not perform with the present cloth. Considering the cloths are always brand new, what could they be concerned about??? Well it has to be grease as thats the only thing to develop. It seems as though people would rather accept its arrival than try to remove it!
We have just brought some of that Table cleaning spray so we will try it on another table and make the comparison!