Table maintenance

[roykay]

Hello,damp cushions will also cause the ball to jump off of the cushion and also make them too fast. Experiment by dampening the top and bottom cush with a damp cloth then compare the speed when throwing a ball hard the length of the table. It will add 1-2 lengths.
Roy Bacon

[bwls730]

Does the airconditioning dry out the air and reduce humidity?

yes, it does dry out the air a bit but primarily it is for cooling and the air will still be way too humid here in HK even after the air conditioning.

[bwls730]

Hello,damp cushions will also cause the ball to jump off of the cushion and also make them too fast. Experiment by dampening the top and bottom cush with a damp cloth then compare the speed when throwing a ball hard the length of the table. It will add 1-2 lengths.
Roy Bacon

Really thanks, I didn't know this.

The weather here I guess is really different to where u guys are, the esential in running a club is the air, need to keep them cool, also to keep the cloth dry (or the air).

The no. 10 hardly work in this condition, the "green" turns palm and yellow in 3 to 4 months time.

[Geoff Large]

ball start jumping when bousing off cushion when the cushion cloth become too slack, my experience on standard railey steel cushion (with height 3.85cm - not sure if I still remember the figures correctly) it takes approx. 4 months to after clothing to see this occuring.

manufacturers in china (I am not sure whether manufacturers in other countries do the sasme but I can only speak from my experience) are awared of this because many club owners do not like the expense in re-clothing as much so start modifying the height of the cushion to pro-long the "no-jump" period, and there are some cushion with 3.9cm (again, not sure if I rememebr the figures correctly, but I hope u get the idea). Cannot really get it much higher because it is very hard to cue the ball off the cushion.

The only thing that would make balls jump is too thin a cloth or grease from sweaty hands on cushion cloth or damped cushion cloth could do it as well . or the obvious rubber fitted too low or falling off the blocks or going soft or hard . tight cloth could in theory bend the rubber down so that it is below centre of ball , but slack cloth would not alter the height of the face of the rubber ?
If the rubber is set on the block to be just above centre of ball then no upward bounce will be experienced .
thin cloth would bring the cushion lower if the rubber height was set for normal club cloth which is thicker , and just recentley cloth manufacturers at the whim of so called experienced players who want a ultra fast cloth have been making the match cloths too thin , I have just recentley recovered three tables in a match thin cloth and in 36 years of recovering I have never ripped a bed cloth when fitting it , UNTIL last Saturday when I ripped one of these ultra thin cloths which I always pride myself in fitting tightley , it ripped as I pulled from the centre pocket 6 inch across the top of the bed cloth . and it is not a cheap cloth at just over £210 + vat for the bed cloth only . (UNFITTED )

This type of cloth is far too thin and in my opinion should not be used as it's life span would only be 6 months , maybe even less on the middle pockets openings and falls of steel block cushions .
when a cloth wears on the face and this cloth also picks up sweat marks from players hands the ball can skid upwards when a shot is coming off the cushion face , remember it is the lower edge of the cushion face that makes contact with the ball , slack cloth on cushions would be a fitters fault .
setting cushion rubber higher than the accepted just above centre of ball will greatly reduce bounce off the cushion as the ball in theory is getting trapped under the nose of the cushion face .
You can clean sweat off cushion cloth with acetone ( do not get any on the wood ) if acetone cannot be found then nail varnish remover will do the trick .
acetone is best used by damping it on a bit of used cloth offcutt and then wipeing this down the nose of the cushion in the direction of the cushions nap .

As for the ultra thin cloths then I am afraid I will not be recomending them in the future , until the manufacturers make them a bit thicker , I know they are making them thinner as the slips on the cushions had to be replaced too as they where too thin for the new cloth , last year the cloth was slightly thicker as the slips where nice and tight , both years the cloth grade was the same from the same manufacturer .
Proof that the cloth is now thinner , and a letter in the form of an email is now on its way to the manufacturer to complain of the latest batch of match cloths they are producing .

when a table is first recovered the cushion cloth will of course be nice and tight to the rubber restricting its bounce , the cloth will slacken in a uniformed manner ( if fitted correct ) to then bring the cushion upto its full bounce , but not so slack as to be very loose like you are saying .
also when a cushion is first rerubbered the bounce of the cushion is not at it's Best , until the rubber has been bruised in a bit , in laymans terms just like a squash ball has to be warmed up to get full bounce before game can begin , I would say at least 3 months of use of the billiard table to make the new rubber bed in and then you will see a much better response in ball bounce .
and around 1 or 2 weeks for the cushion cloth to bed in after a recover .

Remember also heat from an iron can also deform the rubber and reduce its life span , keep the iron 1/4 inch away from the nose of the rubber .

[philip in china]

As always, Geoff, thank you for an interesting post based on decades of experience.

[bwls730]

Thank you so much Geoff for your sharing, I now understand much better what I had been observing from my cushions.

Sorry about my English there are a few things which I don't quite understand, can you please explain again because I really want to know:

"skid upwards when a shot is coming off the cushion face" - what does this mean?
"acetone" - where can I buy this? supermarket?
"wipeing this down the nose of the cushion in the direction of the cushions nap" - "nose of cushion" is it the edge of the cushion? "down the nose" do you mean across the edge sideway in the direction of the nap?
"I know they are making them thinner as the slips on the cushions had to be replaced too as they where too thin for the new cloth" - what does this sentence mean?

What is the reason behind ball jumping when there is grease on the cushion?

My tables use thin cloth but the cushion we use thicker cloth, I am very confident with my fitter he is one of the best in town, it's only me who have always been guessing what had happened and I never took the trouble to clarify with him, I have always been thinking he is only fitting my table and wouldn't care as much about its variation on behaviour over the months, not until now I hear from you that I know I am absolutely wrong.

I was not saying the cloth on my cushion is slack, I meant I observe the jumping start approx. 4-5 months after clothing, this has so far always been my indication on re-clothing, and I suspect it is due to the slacking of the cloth over time so the ball actually "run" into the rubber more hence the rebounce force will be higher such that it start jumping.

Nice to hear so much from your experience, thank you again for taking the trouble in typing up for sharing.

[philip in china]

bwls730, I shall be in Hong Kong around xmas. Maybe a game??
Acetone is an organic solvent- (CH3)2CO. A pharmacy should either stock it or be able to get it for you. My dad used to mix nail varnish remover and acetone was a major constituent part thereof. If you should use varnish remover make sure you get non oily! Otherwise you would make matters worse- some nail varnish remover contains oil. I don't know why- maybe to try to put back into the nails something that the solvent takes out. Another source might be a model or hobby shop. I think modellers use acetone for something but am not sure what.

[bwls730]

Thx philip,

a game, definitely no problem, nice for u to drop by, but my mandarin is not good so u really have to be easily slow on me, I am interested in the game but didn't get good, I can set u up to some of the best players in my clubs though.

Thx for ur tips on acetone and I will check it out.

May I ask how often I should de-grease the cushion? When I see the ball jump? or once every while?

Any more tips on keeping the tables in good condition?

[Geoff Large]

Thank you so much Geoff for your sharing, I now understand much better what I had been observing from my cushions.

Sorry about my English there are a few things which I don't quite understand, can you please explain again because I really want to know:

"skid upwards when a shot is coming off the cushion face" - what does this mean?
"acetone" - where can I buy this? supermarket?
"wipeing this down the nose of the cushion in the direction of the cushions nap" - "nose of cushion" is it the edge of the cushion? "down the nose" do you mean across the edge sideway in the direction of the nap?
"I know they are making them thinner as the slips on the cushions had to be replaced too as they where too thin for the new cloth" - what does this sentence mean?

What is the reason behind ball jumping when there is grease on the cushion?

My tables use thin cloth but the cushion we use thicker cloth, I am very confident with my fitter he is one of the best in town, it's only me who have always been guessing what had happened and I never took the trouble to clarify with him, I have always been thinking he is only fitting my table and wouldn't care as much about its variation on behaviour over the months, not until now I hear from you that I know I am absolutely wrong.

I was not saying the cloth on my cushion is slack, I meant I observe the jumping start approx. 4-5 months after clothing, this has so far always been my indication on re-clothing, and I suspect it is due to the slacking of the cloth over time so the ball actually "run" into the rubber more hence the rebounce force will be higher such that it start jumping.

Nice to hear so much from your experience, thank you again for taking the trouble in typing up for sharing.

If the cushions become greasy with sweat from hands , a ball can skid on the grease , this can make the ball also apear to jump and not come off at the desired angle , if the grease is allowed to build up then the ball will start to jump . as the Grease/sweat build up is getting below centre of ball and lifting it on impact .

Acetone , Phillip has descibed this , and good point about oil based nail varnish remover , to be safe genuine acetone is best to use .
all cushions have a nap , feel for that nap on the cushion , normaly a table cushions are numbered clock wise from Baulk ( D end ) 1.2.3.4.5.6 .
1.2.3.4 are nap to left , 4.5. are nap to right .
source some clean cloth , apply acetone to this , the nose of the cushion is the point where the ball makes contact , some think it bounces off the flat face of the cushion , but it is the lower part of this face as the cloth angles back into the bed cloth that is the point of impact .
wipe Acetone that has been applied to a hand cloth that is colour fast ( a piece of second hand billiard cloth is recomended ) rub gently 1 foot at a time in direction of nap reloading with acetone , this will remove the grease or sweat .
I would say do this every month if you are useing the table a lot .
do not soak the cushion in Acetone , only apply it to the hand cloth and gentlet wipe away in direction of nap , do not get acetone on any woodwork as it may strip the polish off .
you could try useing a white piece of cloth to apply the acetone , I think you will be surprised at how much dirt is on the cloth from the sweat of hands .

Slips , when a cushion is recovered , there is a rebate (slot ) for a piece of thin wood ( the slip ) to trap the cloth into the rebate , if the cloth coming off the table's cushions is thicker than the cloth going on , then new slips will have to be made in order to keep the cloth secured into the back edge of the cushion , the part where the wood of the cushion starts .
allthough the grade and make I used was the same as the last years , then it could only mean one thing if the slips where loose and had to be replaced , the manufacturer has changed his thickness specification for that grade of cloth , either intentionally , or the Billiard Cloth machine operator has set the sheering of the nap too close to the weave on the final cutt . in theory making it thin and less weight , lets say a 28oz cloth becoming a 26 oz cloth per square metre as this is how cloth manufacturer sell the cloth , in nap grade and weight . plus also wool content . but batches can differ , and can cause problems for a billiard fitter .

Slackness of cushion cloth , when a table is first recovered a fitter will do his best to fit both the bed cloth and the cushion cloth tightly , in doing so the rubber is restricted until the cushion cloth gives a bit ( slackens off ) this is normal and a table that is used often takes about 2 weeks to bed in for the cloth to relase the full power of the rubber .
when a cushion has just been recovered , put youre finger on the underside of the cushion where it slopes into the bed cloth , you can feel how taught the cloth is , then feel it a week later to see if it has slackened off a bit .
differant grade's of cloth release quicker than others , a 30z will slaken off quicker than say a 38oz cloth .
A mixed grade of wool and man made fabric can take a little longer , 100% wool in my opinion is the better grade of cloth ( strachan ) , but say a mxture of man made fibres like hainsworth smart will help to make the cloth last longer .

Geoff

[tiggertom]

Hi Guys

While i am new to this furom i have been doing alot of research and found a HUB which may give some more advice on this. I have posted a link below.

http://hubpages.com/hub/How-do-I-cle...-snooker-table

[edemrulez]

Hi there!

I have measured the humidity of our club, it is about 70-75%. Can somebody help me to figure out what humidity is the ideal?

[Redphex]

as rule of thumb - 40-60% is considered "normal" indoor humidity.

[Geoff Large]

Just a reminder to people useing permanent marker or felt tips pens to re-mark out faded Baulk lines and D .
only do it after the last and final stretch of bed cloth , I went to a local club today to do 2 stretch bed cloths , both had permanent marker lines drawn on them which cannot be cleaned off with Acetone like the normal pencil can .
result is either two line's on cloth or mark out new line over top of old line but this is now 1/2 inch further back than the 31 inch from end of slate . or 29inch from nose of cushion .

only use a pencil that can be cleaned off the cloth with Acetone , no ink based products like permanent markers .

[abhi147]

Just a reminder to people useing permanent marker or felt tips pens to re-mark out faded Baulk lines and D .
only do it after the last and final stretch of bed cloth , I went to a local club today to do 2 stretch bed cloths , both had permanent marker lines drawn on them which cannot be cleaned off with Acetone like the normal pencil can .
result is either two line's on cloth or mark out new line over top of old line but this is now 1/2 inch further back than the 31 inch from end of slate . or 29inch from nose of cushion .

only use a pencil that can be cleaned off the cloth with Acetone , no ink based products like permanent markers .

Too late my friend I already used it :@ Well i didnt but the first table fitter I had used it and the cloth was also loose and cushion leathers weer a nightmare
Anyways luckily for me there wasnt much problem but the balk line is slightly crooked and there are 2 spots for blue black pink. But luckily the ones with permanent marker have faded off a little
And theres absolutely nothing I can do until I have to get a cloth replaced

[maryfield]

Celluslose thinners will remove permanent marker ink. Use a scrap piece of snooker cloth and wet with cellulose thinners. Rub line with the nap, never against it. This will remove the unwanted line. I use it all the time.