Table maintenance

[Geoff Large]

Have you ever examined a no 10 cloth from the world championships , there are more cue stabs in those cloths because the player has no respect for the cloth to last for say a year or so , the shots these professional's make on a table are all money shots and world rankings shots , they are not bothered about the cloth .
the cloth is changed every three days they do not wait for the semi finals , they just change them as the cue stabs get worse.
if they are now leaving the tables for longer then i have not heard about it , it used to be every three days the last time I spoke to one of the fitters who did these tables .
And I use this when people ask about why pro's have no spots , it's because the cloth do not have to last more than three days unlike your club table which has to last 2 years normally . and the white baulk is for TV to show up on the screen , black would not show up ., players normally get them and sell them to the local club , I have fitted some really bad ones with quite a few cue stabs in them .

I would not know what tin foil would do to the playing conditions to a table if placed under the cloth , you would have to find someone who makes it 6ft 1.5 inch wide and 12 foot long , normally they make tin foil in small widths for wrapping the Christmas Turkey in .
I once took a cloth off in a snooker hall in Beeston local to me , Another firm under the owners orders had put some very thin tape over the joints to try and cover the slate joints , but when ironed the tape showed through the cloth , this was because the snooker hall owner used to experiment with things like this , he instructed me to remove it on the next recover .

I once had a guy ask me where the rubber pad was over a snooker slate ? he genuinely thought the slates had a thin rubber pad over them .

the tale of vacuum cleaners pulling filler out of joints is down to the type of filler that was traditionally used back then , Plaster of Paris , with new easy sand car body filler it bonds much better , I still do not recommend using a vacuum cleaner on the tables , but if you get one that has only a small suction , or open the slide on one then I think you may be ok , Henrys and other well know makes of vac are very powerful so avoid these type , so look for a low cost rechargeable type with a wide head as wide as a Brush , make sure there are no sharp edges to the vac head . and only go with the nap the same direction as when you brush a table from Baulk to spot end , you can concentrate on the end cushions area of slate this is where most chalk will end up , but avoid hanging a round those joints with the vac , quickly glide over them .

Buy a good cloth cleaner like this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMBERSIL-P...#ht_5702wt_955
this type is normally used for cleaning american pool cloth , but also is used on wool napped cloth . Avoid where the seller says brush back and forth , always brush in the nap direction .

a low powered vac is the way to go , as you only require to pick up surface chalk and dust before it gets into the weave , you can drill holes in the pipe work to reduce the suction if it has no slide to open to reduce it .
I can tell when taking cloths off if they have been using a vac . some do use them and never have a problem , it is all down to the type of filler used or how good the joints are in the first place , some tables are that good they have no filler in them , very rare to find one but they do exist .
We as fitters always do not recommend the use of a vac because of the amount of trouble they cause to tables and pulling filler out , but we know people do use them and some without problems.

At the end of the Day the choice is down to you , I would on the next re-cover insist that all the filler is raked out and refilled with a good quality easy sand car body filler , after first levelling and making sure the joints are butted correct , if problems with joints then they may have to feather fill the joint , this is normally done because the last fitter or previous fitters have just sanded the joints way to get level instead of getting them right in the first place , when the slate has been sanded away and you finally get the table level you may find there is a lip on the joint , this has to be feather filled in that you fill and when sanded you can see the low slate with filler on when good as thin as a feather . I had to do one last Friday like that .

[Staezione]

I have a no 10 cloth fitted but when you hit the cueball quite hard or a ball comes quick of the cushion, it's like the cloth is ice. the ball tend to slip for a moment before he starts to roll naturally.
Anyone knows why?
I do iron the cloth sometimes with a normal household iron and must say in the past i've set the temperature a bit high but the cloth is never burned or damaged in any way..

[inevermissblue]

Those conditions that you speak of are what you should experience. These previous half a dozen posts made by myself and Geoff were about getting these playing characteristics back from a table cloth. Don't knock it mate, this is how it should be on every table.

[Staezione]

Also when i iron the cloth i use the steam button. I make sure the temperature settings is at wool.
Have now 1.5 years the no 10 cloth and still plays like new.
No signs of wearing yet. If it goes on like this i think i can keep this cloth forever.
ps: i play about 3 times a week on it and i have undertable heating like on tele.

[Redphex]

steam button? so you use a steam iron? thought this was considered a no-go.

[Staezione]

Yes but i'll go very quick with the steam and afterwards again with no steam to instant dry the damp. theni iron again but with the temperature slightly higher.
this i do once in 2 months. The other times i'll just iron without steam but after the "steam session" the cloth looks like brand new also.

[Geoff Large]

That's one way of keeping a cloth tight , the cloth is wool and will shrink if steamed ,
You have to ask yourself this , if using a steam iron is OK , why is it not recommended to do it and why do Qualified billiards fitters not use one ? .

I once recovered a pool table and the owner phoned me up a day later saying he had a ridge in the bed cloth , he had used a steam iron without any steam on but the residue had leaked out of one of the steam holes this had swelled the cloth and produced a ridge in the cloth .

A none steam iron is the type to use and those billiards irons are designed to be heavy for use on a billiard cloth , there is realy no substitute iron to use , a household none steam iron is OK for a pool table but if you are really serious about maintaining your table to a high standard use the iron that is designed for the job and the best is the Dowsing billiard iron , even a broken one put on a gas or electric hob is much better than using a household Domestic iron , at the end of the day the ball has to run smooth on a wool napped cloth .

do not use a steam iron http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philips-GC...item35d0ad2ff7

if you cannot aford a proper billiard dowsing iron and do not fancy the old thick heavy old type that you put on a gas or electric hob then use an old standard iron like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Morphy...item3389aa9a9a, but you will have tram lines using such a small iron .

here are two types that I recommend one is much better to use than the other guess which one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thurston-C...d#ht_621wt_904

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Dowsin...#ht_1480wt_904

[philip in china]

I think this is one of the most useful threads on TSF. Thanks again for your input, Geoff. I still think when you retire you should write a book!

I have 2 tables and 2 irons! Here in China I have a 10' Chinese table and use a domestic iron on it. The steam system on the iron is long gone so there is no chance of water getting on the cloth. In Bulgaria I have a full size table and a proper snooker table iron. (It is a Taiwanese clone of a Dowsing). The domestic iron does work but it is a more difficult and slower process than using the big heavy iron. I also think the bigger iron does a better job but the table and cloth there are so vastly superior it is difficult to judge.

[Staezione]

I want to believe you Geoff, but then why stays my cloth so good and more important last so long?
When i recover i think i'm putting a hainsworth precision on it. Don't think i will dare to use steam on that cloth.

[Geoff Large]

No 10 is a very thin cloth , in normal club playing conditions it would not last no more than 6 months in a club 12 months if it was reserved for match table only with no practice allowed especially aligning the balls up in a straight line for cue ball control , but if only used now and again by one person it may well last for over 3 years .

I have been in the Billiards cue sports trade for nearly 40 years and know what water and dampness put into Wool cloth can do , they do not have heated slates for nothing it is to make sure that the cloth has no moisture in it .
Now I am not being the I know better than you type , and I have no problems with you using a steam iron on your own table , but if others reading this thread think's it is OK then we are going to get problems in club's up and down the Uk thinking it is the norm for a cheap steam iron to be used in place of the proper tool .

this is the same scenario to the starch question , I again have no problems any one using starch on their own tables , but as a fitter I can see problems if a stretch is required .

I think what you have is a cloth unironed is not good to play on , a cloth using a low cost steam iron plays better , but I guarantee a cloth ironed using a heavy Billiard table iron will be much better to play on with no risk of dampness being transferred into the cloth as it is not a steam iron .

your steam iron is only improving the cloth because it is getting tighter and tighter as the Hot steam shrinks the wool based cloth , this will result in the bed cloth having no stretch qualities if a re-stretch or table move is required in the future using the same cloth .when you wash wool in the washing machine it warns you not to put it on a hot wash , because the wool garment will shrink , it is the same process with your steam iron you are shrinking the cloth .
and if you get one of those holes in the plate leak water when you are dry ironing , it will leave a raised thin tram line that the ball will hit , I have seen this on a wool mix pool table cloth so know it can happen . and it took about 6 irons with a normal billiard iron to get it anywhere near flat , in fact it took a week of ironing to get that raised line out of the cloth .

at the end of the day if you are happy using the steam iron on your cloth on your own table , then carry on using it , but by saying it is much better to steam the cloth than not to steam is the wrong information in keeping a Billiard table playing to a high standard , and the right tool although expensive is the better option.

I can only point out the pitfalls of using a steam iron , and it is up to the readers of this thread to decide which option they want to go down , the professional advice or a keen person who is looking for a lower priced option .
I am not having a go , but as Professional billiards fitter , I would like to think all my learnings over the last 40 years are not falling on deaf ears. I am still learning today , I may come across another fitter who uses a different method and I think Wow all these years I have been doing it that way when this way is better .

I can see the benefits of maybe experimenting using starch on a WORN STRETCHED TWICE cloth and if you do not like the results then you have lost nothing anyway as it was due a recover , but a steam iron to me is a no go .

I know that a No 10 recover is around £200 higher in price than a 6811 tournament charged by the top firms , my advice to you would have been go for the 6811 T and buy an iron for the same price as a Number 10 recover , then at a later date if you fancied a recover in No 10 or any make and grade cloth , you will have the right tool to maintain it .

as for a steam iron prolonging the life of a cloth , that is not possible , a ball rolling on cloth wears the cloth out, use wear's it out , just how much use determines the life of a cloth,you use it more the cloth wear's out quicker , you use less and it last's longer, no damping with water , or spraying starch can halt this wear of cloth by use of playing the game. well maybe the starch can slightly halt the wear as you are spraying a hard coat of paste on top of the cloth .
My Car tyres would not last longer if water or starch was sprayed on them as it the contact with the road that wears the rubber tyre out , more miles I do the less the tyre's last , and it is the same with billiard cloth you use it more and it will wear out quicker.
especially around the under side of cushions , the pocket falls and the spot areas .

[philip in china]

You know, Geoff, you should be telling people all the wrong things. That way you would get more work. You could have a sock puppet, Geoff Small, who tells folks to vacuum the cloth, use a garden roller on it etc. etc. You could make millions.

[inevermissblue]

This thread is very frustrating for me to read! So many unaddresed issues. I have found an excellent table cleaning regime that has now been formulated to the tee!
It works! provides great results! no matter where we employ it!
However...We do encounter alot of objections to its effectiveness, but if they will not allow us to show them how will they ever be able to make the comparison???
So...If anyone would like to know what we do to regain great playing conditions, by all means private message me and i will tell you! I've tried shouting it from the rooftops but this just seems to fall on deaf ears!!!
When/if you do try it, be sure to let TSF know that you recommend it!

[lesedwards]

Steam? Hi Geoff I have new Strachan 6811 20oz on my old Burroughs n Watts and also have new Northern Rubber. My table is heated with damp chaseres which keep the slate at 21 to 22 C I also have a proper iron. I was in touch with Strachan because I do not find my table as quick as I think it should be. They told me that some bolts might have a little heavier nap then others and maybe mine is one of the heavier bolts. The cloth is about 6 months old. I brush, block the table everyday and iron it about twice a weak. Just wondered about trying the steam to tighten it up or should I just keep doing what I have been doing.

[Geoff Large]

hi Les , I think you mean 30 oz cloth ?

Putting any steam or water into wool will expand the fibres , so will in theory make the cloth slower as it is a thicker cloth when damp acting like blotting paper, it will when it is dry shrink because you have wet it then ironed it , as we know wool washed on a hot setting will shrink , and the same applies to wool being wet then ironed on a billiard table .

A trick that many fitters use around the middle slate fall if they get a hard to fit cloth , they damp the cloth then iron it to shrink out any possible wrinkles. Have a close look on TV around the middle slate fall just before the ball falls , you may notice a differant shade of cloth colour , this is where the fitter has dampened the cloth before ironing it , no 10 is the most difficult cloth to fit around those TV table pocket falls .

It is true that you get good and bad batches of cloth , I have noticed that some 30oz cloths are thicker than the last batch or thinner if you get what I mean .
One thing that informs me that a cloth is thinner than the last batch is loose cushion retaining slips .
You could try inevermissablue's trick and put starch on the cloth which may help keep the nap down , it is something I would not recommend and neither do the cloth manufacturer Strachan. but if he is experiencing good results then you may want to try it on his recommendation though not mine , although he says the table he is using it on has worn cloth on it , not new cloth . I have no problem anyone using starch spray on worn cloth because if it goes pear shaped it was due a recover anyway , spraying it on new cloth and you have bad results would mean recovering a newly clothed table which would hurt you in the pocket.
A new recover is going to play much slower than worn no nap cloth , so if you are comparing it to the old cloth then you will notice a huge difference in speed .

My advice is double up on Brushing and ironing , try and wear some of the nap away and keep pressing it flat , if it is over 6 months since the re-cover ,then stretching a bed cloth will also speed the cloth up.
one more thing , where did you get your cloth from ? there are fake Strachan cloth about made in china.
Before it was fitted you should always check the cloth has blue embroidered lines down one side with Gold embroidered writing saying Strachan 6811 tournament , also a cloth transfer with Strachan gold tournament 30 oz , and in black ink printing on the underside a roll number and again Strachan tournament printed in .

Hope above info is of use to you.

Oh and congrats on Team Canada women's ice hockey winning gold and the men reaching the final today.

[lesedwards]

Thanks for all the info Geoff. My cloth is the real thing embroidered along the sides. Strachan 6811 Tournament 30oz one down from #10. Sometimes I wish I had gone with the #10