New/Old Break off shot?

[mikee]

jLol I know what you mean ,it depends on the day ,even this guy I give a good start to is capable of knocking a few points in ,even though he can’t really play position ,he can pot balls and has good days ,I do smack em off the back cushion quite often though ,other times when he’s struggling I leave him a few tempting long pots and a few potential in offs

[Starsky]

jLol I know what you mean ,it depends on the day ,even this guy I give a good start to is capable of knocking a few points in ,even though he can’t really play position ,he can pot balls and has good days ,I do smack em off the back cushion quite often though ,other times when he’s struggling I leave him a few tempting long pots and a few potential in offs

It’s amazing how many times those type of players knock in that long red out of the blue when you least expect it and then miss a simple pink or black and put it safe

[vmax]

It’s amazing how many times those type of players knock in that long red out of the blue when you least expect it and then miss a simple pink or black and put it safe

Exactly, and then you need to score over 68 points without reply with black and sometimes pink safe. Best break I ever made was a 42 using only the baulk colours and the blue after a safety battle from above the black spot put all the the reds in baulk and pink and black on the side cushions. It ended with three reds left and after giving 30 start and potting twelve red colours I could still lose. Handicap snooker, gotta love it as leagues wouldn't exist without it but it does your head in sometimes, well most the time really, but these days it's usually to do with smartphones, bloody things

[MartinY]

When having a game over the weekend my opponent showed me a break which he called ‘the Captains Break’??

You position the cue ball next to the yellow, as close as possible without touching and play the break off diagonally between blue and pink and round the 4 cushions! I’ve tried it a few times now and it seems to be quite effective! Has anyone else seen this break? Or used it?

That's the break-off I use with a bit (sometime quite a bit) of left hand side.

[Danger Steve]

That's the break-off I use with a bit (sometime quite a bit) of left hand side.

Yes a trace of left just helps it round the angles

[Starsky]

That break is similar to the safety shot I normally play .
I can see why Ronnie hit the blue which I presume is due to compensating for the throw with the side .

[Zelig]

I think the "figure of eight" has become the standard because it leaves larger margins of error on the final position of the cueball: the four cushions and the long travel make sure that CB will lose momentum in relatively safe areas even if you get the pace wrong (hitting too hard will leave CB around the brown, too soft will leave it around the green pocket; all cases in between are still relatively safe places).

I think the reason why the pros are trying alternatives is that nowadays the pros long-potting has become so accurate that the same areas that I mentioned above are not "safe" anymore for them. But for club players / playing mortals and not pros, I suspect the figure of eight keeps all its virtues.

The main problem I have -- this is just me, I think -- with the figure of eight is that the amount of side & spin I need to use (in order to get it right and avoid the blue) changes enormously when I go from one club table to another club table: I have never been able to find a consistent break-off shot that works the same on different tables, I always had to try and try on a given table and adjust side & spin a lot every time (coaches: suggestions are welcome if you have tricks to share).

[Starsky]

I think the "figure of eight" has become the standard because it leaves larger margins of error on the final position of the cueball: the four cushions and the long travel make sure that CB will lose momentum in relatively safe areas even if you get the pace wrong (hitting too hard will leave CB around the brown, too soft will leave it around the green pocket; all cases in between are still relatively safe places).

I think the reason why the pros are trying alternatives is that nowadays the pros long-potting has become so accurate that the same areas that I mentioned above are not "safe" anymore for them. But for club players / playing mortals and not pros, I suspect the figure of eight keeps all its virtues.

The main problem I have -- this is just me, I think -- with the figure of eight is that the amount of side & spin I need to use (in order to get it right and avoid the blue) changes enormously when I go from one club table to another club table: I have never been able to find a consistent break-off shot that works the same on different tables, I always had to try and try on a given table and adjust side & spin a lot every time (coaches: suggestions are welcome if you have tricks to share).

I agree and it’s for this reason the safety played with side which goes around the angles is better than just a plain up and down safety shot .

With your break off hitting the blue I would say that it’s your technique that is not consistent and isn’t a table issue. You shouldn’t be hitting the blue regardless of table. Of course everybody occasionally hits the blue even pro’s but this is normally down to lack of concentration at the start of the game .
I would take some time out to practice it and try to get the white to come inside the blue by quite a margin . This will require to hit it quite thin but with a fair bit of side to narrow the angle .
The better you get at giving yourself room from the blue by the use of side then the more margin there is for slight differences in the how you hit the shot.

[Cue crafty]

Yep agree with this above, I struggle with consistency on the break off, tables i play on I need a fair bit of side to get the cue ball to swing around the angles and sometimes this causes me to miss the second red from the back of the pack I'm aiming at. When it goes wrong I often bring a red over the middle pocket or go in off in the green pocket. The in off is a classic , it's passed the blue on the wrong side and immediately you know it's in there...

Might add breaking off to my bit of solo from now on, there sounds like there must be a simpler way from other posts that might suit proper matches better....or maybe I just need to practice it more, it's an important shot but don't think I've ever seen someone keep setting up in practice and doing it over...

[Starsky]

Yep agree with this above, I struggle with consistency on the break off, tables implant on I need a fair bit of side to get the cue ball to swing around the angles and sometimes this causes me to miss the second red from the back of the pack I'm aiming at. When it goes wrong I often bring a red over the middle pocket or go in off in the green pocket. The in off is a classic , it's passed the blue on the wrong side and immediately you know it's in there...

Might add breaking off to my bit of solo from now on, there sounds like there must be a simpler way from other posts that might suit proper matches better....

That’s a common mistake CC , putting heavy side but not compensating correctly for the throw . If you think about it , you only play that shot every other game so unless your practicing it solo or playing for hours a day your not going to get consistent .
Also if you play the safety around the angles with side as a regular shot which is basically the same shot it albeit at a different angle it will help with your break off.

[Cue crafty]

That’s a common mistake CC , putting heavy side but not compensating correctly for the throw . If you think about it , you only play that shot every other game so unless your practicing it solo or playing for hours a day your not going to get consistent .
Also if you play the safety around the angles with side as a regular shot which is basically the same shot it albeit at a different angle it will help with your break off.

Thanks, obvious I suppose but I guess it's laziness really - not an easy thought plan for me personally, rack the 15 reds up ... Break off, rack the 15 reds up......zzzzzzz

Gotta be worth it though and could actually prove a bit of fun when you see results.

[Starsky]

Thanks, obvious I suppose but I guess it's laziness really - not an easy thought plan for me personally, rack the 15 reds up ... Break off, rack the 15 reds up......zzzzzzz

Gotta be worth it though and could actually prove a bit of fun when you see results.

Sorry I’m at work and didn’t explain myself properly …. Your right resetting fifteen reds would be a pain.

There is a safety routine that I do that I would use to practice break offs as well.
Line up six reds with small gaps between them from the side of the pink you break off from at the same angle as if you was breaking off. Then practice clipping the reds in turn with side while bring the cue ball inside the blue as you would on a break off. Repeat on other side of pink to practice both your safety and break offs….

[Zelig]

I agree and it’s for this reason the safety played with side which goes around the angles is better than just a plain up and down safety shot .

With your break off hitting the blue I would say that it’s your technique that is not consistent and isn’t a table issue. You shouldn’t be hitting the blue regardless of table. Of course everybody occasionally hits the blue even pro’s but this is normally down to lack of concentration at the start of the game .
I would take some time out to practice it and try to get the white to come inside the blue by quite a margin . This will require to hit it quite thin but with a fair bit of side to narrow the angle .
The better you get at giving yourself room from the blue by the use of side then the more margin there is for slight differences in the how you hit the shot.

Hi Starsky,

Thanks a lot for the hints. I cannot claim a consistent technique, you are probably right on this, but all my clubmates agree with me that the table matters too: we are a small private club with two tables (workies'...), and we can easily swap from one table to the other when they are both available. On table 1, the main cloth is fast but the cushion cloth simply does not take side (unless it is an outrageous amount); table 2 is the opposite, slow main cloth but high grip on the cushions.

Three of us did the break-off test by going from one to the other on consecutive breakoffs, multiple times. For the test, we tried the so-called "standard break-off shot" by hitting the CB in the way all coaches suggest (that is: hit the CB "Nort-East", moderate top spin and moderate right side). Result: with the same "standard shot" (to the best of our multiple attempts to reproduce the same shot by going back and forth between the two tables), we all tend to hit the blue on Table 1 whereas on Table 2 we all tend to re-hit the pack on the way back after the first two cushions... can this be a coincidence?

Some of us, out of frustration, started to do the figure-of-eight by striking the CB in a totally different way: no side, just hitting the CB centre-ball with backspin (screw-stun). If you do it on our tables, it works great (on both Table 1 and 2!). However, if you use backspin on pro tables, you will likely leave the CB right in the pack (possibly hitting the wrong cushion first).

The "screw-stun solution" is pretty much the opposite of what most youtube coaches say, but still, it works best on our tables. The frustration is when we go to other clubs and play on pro tables... we need to resort to the "standard shot" again, and of course we are inconsistent...