body position and alignment problem

[snookerdream]

just to clarify - in your first post you said:



maybe a misunderstanding or misuse of a term or lost in translation

often it is very difficult to explain in words what we do when going to the table

is it possible to get a video?
they help so much

yeah my bad, i guess its sqaure stance as my left foot is only just forware of right foot, not 100% sqaure but just ahead of right foot
and yea i apologize for stating it as half boxing

[Richard pincott]

This might sound controversial to some and is my own personal opinion after 55 years of playing the game. But for almost anyone who can play at a reasonable standard or better the stance itself is almost irrelevant to your game. When you walk you look where you are going and not at your feet. When you eat you look at your food and not the fork when putting it in your mouth.
what I am trying to say is you don’t pot balls from under the table it’s your eyes and brain that decide where you should be and your stance will come naturally for YOU as long as you do a pre shot routine the same every time. I firmly believe potting balls or playing safety shots is a 3 way combination between your eyes, your brain and then ultimately your HAND. Once you have assessed the shot you wish to play from behind the line which should include tracing the line of the white to exactly where you want it to finish and you are 100% clear your eyes will send a message to your brain and it will put you on the correct line as you get down to the table looking at the object ball.
You can check this by either moving your body fractionally from side to side or your cue. You will know immediately that you are off line.
So in a nutshell let your feet go to where your brain and body put them in conjunction with your eyes and concentrate totally on what is happening on the table and not underneath it.

[mikee]

I don’t think the stance is that important ,cueing straight over the dominant eye is more important ,that and repetition of a pre shot routine and feeling comfortable .

[Starsky]

This might sound controversial to some and is my own personal opinion after 55 years of playing the game. But for almost anyone who can play at a reasonable standard or better the stance itself is almost irrelevant to your game. When you walk you look where you are going and not at your feet. When you eat you look at your food and not the fork when putting it in your mouth.
what I am trying to say is you don’t pot balls from under the table it’s your eyes and brain that decide where you should be and your stance will come naturally for YOU as long as you do a pre shot routine the same every time. I firmly believe potting balls or playing safety shots is a 3 way combination between your eyes, your brain and then ultimately your HAND. Once you have assessed the shot you wish to play from behind the line which should include tracing the line of the white to exactly where you want it to finish and you are 100% clear your eyes will send a message to your brain and it will put you on the correct line as you get down to the table looking at the object ball.
You can check this by either moving your body fractionally from side to side or your cue. You will know immediately that you are off line.
So in a nutshell let your feet go to where your brain and body put them in conjunction with your eyes and concentrate totally on what is happening on the table and not underneath it.

I couldn’t agree more .
I was never coached as a kid when I played full time and my stance in modern coaching would be classed as wrong . Both legs are bent and my forward foot isn’t straight on the line of aim at times but my body is. I can’t even remember a pre shot routine ever mentioned back in the day but we done it anyway and through hours practicing the brain and body naturally corrected itself through repetition .
It’s an automatic reaction to get down on the line of aim and it’s an automatic reaction to know when you haven’t .

[tomwalker147]

This might sound controversial to some and is my own personal opinion after 55 years of playing the game. But for almost anyone who can play at a reasonable standard or better the stance itself is almost irrelevant to your game. When you walk you look where you are going and not at your feet. When you eat you look at your food and not the fork when putting it in your mouth.
what I am trying to say is you don’t pot balls from under the table it’s your eyes and brain that decide where you should be and your stance will come naturally for YOU as long as you do a pre shot routine the same every time. I firmly believe potting balls or playing safety shots is a 3 way combination between your eyes, your brain and then ultimately your HAND. Once you have assessed the shot you wish to play from behind the line which should include tracing the line of the white to exactly where you want it to finish and you are 100% clear your eyes will send a message to your brain and it will put you on the correct line as you get down to the table looking at the object ball.
You can check this by either moving your body fractionally from side to side or your cue. You will know immediately that you are off line.
So in a nutshell let your feet go to where your brain and body put them in conjunction with your eyes and concentrate totally on what is happening on the table and not underneath it.

already a valued member of the forum, nice one Richard, agree

[Danger Steve]

I don’t totally agree or disagree, but I think your looking at it from the point of view of an experienced player. Yes once you reach a certain level you don’t think about where your placing your feet, it’s just automatic. But when your still learning then making sure your feet are in the right spot is vital I would say. As an extreme example try standing a foot or two off the line of the shot and then try to play a decent game! It will be a struggle and you’ll probably need a visit to a chiropractor the day after, the same thing will happen on a smaller scale… I say a good test that your feet are right is to find a comfortable stance that mimics a pro stance, set up a mid length straight shot, walk into the shot, get down, close your eyes and strike the cue ball. If you pot the object ball or are close to potting it then your stance is about right. After that it is as you say, hand eye coordination, small body adjustment and of course hours and hours of practice to learn all the different angles. Job done, next question

[Richard pincott]

I don’t think the stance is that important ,cueing straight over the dominant eye is more important ,that and repetition of a pre shot routine and feeling comfortable .

I have tried almost everything that’s possible over the years especially when I managed a snooker club for 5 years back in the 80s. I probably did but I can’t remember trying to alter my sight line. It’s another thing I believe comes naturally but I will have a look at it when my new snooker glasses arrive. 👍

[Starsky]

I have tried almost everything that’s possible over the years especially when I managed a snooker club for 5 years back in the 80s. I probably did but I can’t remember trying to alter my sight line. It’s another thing I believe comes naturally but I will have a look at it when my new snooker glasses arrive. 👍

Where was that then Richard ?

[Richard pincott]

I don’t totally agree or disagree, but I think your looking at it from the point of view of an experienced player. Yes once you reach a certain level you don’t think about where your placing your feet, it’s just automatic. But when your still learning then making sure your feet are in the right spot is vital I would say. As an extreme example try standing a foot or two off the line of the shot and then try to play a decent game! It will be a struggle and you’ll probably need a visit to a chiropractor the day after, the same thing will happen on a smaller scale… I say a good test that your feet are right is to find a comfortable stance that mimics a pro stance, set up a mid length straight shot, walk into the shot, get down, close your eyes and strike the cue ball. If you pot the object ball or are close to potting it then your stance is about right. After that it is as you say, hand eye coordination, small body adjustment and of course hours and hours of practice to learn all the different angles. Job done, next question

Yes. Most newcomers to the game will need some sort of help with basics. But if you look at small children for example learning to play they have to stand miles to the left or right to get their body out of the way and their cue arm is almost horizontal to the table just to get the cue over the top and under the chin lol
subconsciously what they are doing is getting into a position to allow them to do what the eyes and brain is telling them to do so to speak.
Regarding angles for potting.
Again this is my take on it and my mindset.
How can I put this. There are not really any angles as such to think about. If you think of it that way there would be hundreds of slightly different ones.
Granted some pots are more difficult than others because they require more precise accuracy but theoretically they all have to be contacted at the furthest point from the pocket.
So for me it’s always the 1 angle or where my eyes pick up the contact point. However. There is an element of memory and trust required in learning to pot balls.
Your eyes will almost always pick the correct line because nothing is moving. It’s a fixed picture. White, object ball, pocket. Regardless of where they are. Well nearly regardless but that’s for another time lol.
Trust !!! Yes this is an awkward one. Ok I will try to explain how it affects me in my sighting bearing in mind I have really bad eyesight and wear badly made glasses where the balls look slightly oval. Very clear but not quite round 😂
when you are assessing your shot from the standing position your eyes will see the angle and give you the correct line to drop down to. However when you get down to the table you are now looking at the shot from 2- 3 ft lower which in my case make it look like I am lining up to thick as the angle appears to have narrowed because I am looking at it straight on and not from above. This might not be the case with most players but I have to and do trust my eyes and just cue the ball.
I got carried away. Sorry lol.

[Richard pincott]

Where was that then Richard ?

It was a nightclub downstairs and a snooker club upstairs called BIBAS. It was in Bristol.

[Richard pincott]

I couldn’t agree more .
I was never coached as a kid when I played full time and my stance in modern coaching would be classed as wrong . Both legs are bent and my forward foot isn’t straight on the line of aim at times but my body is. I can’t even remember a pre shot routine ever mentioned back in the day but we done it anyway and through hours practicing the brain and body naturally corrected itself through repetition .
It’s an automatic reaction to get down on the line of aim and it’s an automatic reaction to know when you haven’t .

Exactly.
There are so many little and different things in snooker that can go wrong. When we do miss by inches or more something has been done incorrectly. It’s usually off centre striking or not being crystal clear of what you are doing.
I think to play to your best ability there are only a few things you need to do consistently.
assess the whole shot every time even the easiest of shots.
walk in on the line looking at the target.
make 100% sure you are striking the cue ball where you want to and keeping everything still.
In a nutshell doing this will denote your current maximum ability. If you are still missing easyish pots then I would suggest a cueing or movement problem. Possibly elbow movement. Ideally swinging the arm without any elbow movement and head movement may increase your accuracy.
cueing straight is not as easy as it might seem especially over distance or with power.
If you have a coach in your area or an experienced player it might be worth getting them to have a look. It might make a big difference to your game.

[Danger Steve]

You make it sound easy Richard

[Starsky]

Exactly.
There are so many little and different things in snooker that can go wrong. When we do miss by inches or more something has been done incorrectly. It’s usually off centre striking or not being crystal clear of what you are doing.
I think to play to your best ability there are only a few things you need to do consistently.
assess the whole shot every time even the easiest of shots.
walk in on the line looking at the target.
make 100% sure you are striking the cue ball where you want to and keeping everything still.
In a nutshell doing this will denote your current maximum ability. If you are still missing easyish pots then I would suggest a cueing or movement problem. Possibly elbow movement. Ideally swinging the arm without any elbow movement and head movement may increase your accuracy.
cueing straight is not as easy as it might seem especially over distance or with power.
If you have a coach in your area or an experienced player it might be worth getting them to have a look. It might make a big difference to your game.

Thanks for your reply Richard.
I’ve been down the coaching route and although I did take one thing out of it overall it messed with my head and caused more problems than it solved . I only went as I had been out of the game for twenty years or so and wanted an MOT on my technique and I ended up trying to change my whole cue action .
I then had had an ex pro give me the best bit of advice yet …… ‘ ‘You know how to hit hundreds don’t you , stop overthinking it and just get down and hit the bloody ball ‘ .
That’s my mantra now when I’m playing crap and overthinking it.

I completely agree though that beginners should get coaching for the basics to give themselves something to work on and practice with. The learning curve will be quicker than trying to do it through the natural correction your mind and body makes as it takes many hours on the practice table for that to happen and to get to a high standard.

[Starsky]

It was a nightclub downstairs and a snooker club upstairs called BIBAS. It was in Bristol.

The perfect 80’s combo then

[Danger Steve]

Yes. Most newcomers to the game will need some sort of help with basics. But if you look at small children for example learning to play they have to stand miles to the left or right to get their body out of the way and their cue arm is almost horizontal to the table just to get the cue over the top and under the chin lol
subconsciously what they are doing is getting into a position to allow them to do what the eyes and brain is telling them to do so to speak.
Regarding angles for potting.
Again this is my take on it and my mindset.
How can I put this. There are not really any angles as such to think about. If you think of it that way there would be hundreds of slightly different ones.
Granted some pots are more difficult than others because they require more precise accuracy but theoretically they all have to be contacted at the furthest point from the pocket.
So for me it’s always the 1 angle or where my eyes pick up the contact point. However. There is an element of memory and trust required in learning to pot balls.
Your eyes will almost always pick the correct line because nothing is moving. It’s a fixed picture. White, object ball, pocket. Regardless of where they are. Well nearly regardless but that’s for another time lol.
Trust !!! Yes this is an awkward one. Ok I will try to explain how it affects me in my sighting bearing in mind I have really bad eyesight and wear badly made glasses where the balls look slightly oval. Very clear but not quite round 😂
when you are assessing your shot from the standing position your eyes will see the angle and give you the correct line to drop down to. However when you get down to the table you are now looking at the shot from 2- 3 ft lower which in my case make it look like I am lining up to thick as the angle appears to have narrowed because I am looking at it straight on and not from above. This might not be the case with most players but I have to and do trust my eyes and just cue the ball.
I got carried away. Sorry lol.

I think once the basics are down the game actually is all about tons of practice and repetition if you want to reach a decent level. Trying to pick a tiny contact point on a round ball from 8 feet away is no easy task, ghost balls and all that.. So yeah I would say it’s as much your brain just learns the angle over time from playing the shots, especially those awkward thin cut back type shots!! There are indeed loads of ‘angles’ which is why the game is so difficult! And let’s not even go into the nap of the cloth, pocket pinching and allowing for spin etc.. so many variables that change the angle.

I also think you have a few different types of players, the naturally gifted ones that just see the angle in there mind and get down and knock it in like your Ronnie O’Sullivan and then there are your Selby type’s who have to work really hard and put the hours in to improve and if you have a few months off it’s like your back to square one almost. It’s like when your playing really well, you can just get down on a shot almost in a trancelike state and knock balls in for fun without thinking, then on another day you have to focus more on pre-shot routine and concentrate more on seeing the angles, and those are the days when self doubt creeps in and over analysing your technique. I like what Tom said the other day about how he has to calibrate his cue action! That’s actually a good way of quickly trying to reset the brain on what a straight shot should look like, I’m not sure if it’s correct or not but I have tried this myself sometimes and it kinda works! Just spend 5 mins correcting your body position until your knocking them in and then the next time you get down all natural the shot then appears straight and you hit it straight. Weird but true!

18 months ago I could barely make a 30 break when I started playing again after roughly 20years off! I’m lucky enough to have my own table now and I’ll be out playing most days (don’t tell Starsky that) and just a few weeks ago I had a new high break of 95 and now I’ll regularly be knocking in 50’s etc… I doubt this would have happened as quickly or even at all if I joined a club and only played once or twice a week. So yeah, if you wanna improve, fine tune your basics and then just hammer the practice table!