Reasons for missing ?

[mikee]

Play on Stuart Cartingtons table a few times when I’m at my mates neck if the woods ,the table bed is crazy hot ,or it used to be a couple of years ago .One day just before covid hit the cleaner turned the heaters off by mistake ,the fitters had to come in and re level the table as it was all over the place .too much heat moved the slates and and most likely warped the frame .Snooker tables are not supposed to be put through that heat ,no differant to leaving your cue propped up near a radiator ,it will dry out at best ,or warp at worst .

[Richard pincott]

There are loads of top players that look at the cue ball so I don’t agree that focusing on the object ball is the only way to go? I’ve tried myself in practice to just focus on the object ball and it just feels so unnatural to me and my long potting can be way off!

I don’t know for sure, I’m just assuming here, but I think most ‘cue ball watchers’ play in a similar way to myself? I will get down on the shot, look at the white in relation to the object ball and if I’m potting to the left I should see the object ball to the left of the white, this is how I know I’m set up correct on the shot, if not I’ll micro adjust or I’ll get up and start again. Then once I’m happy I’m lined up, I’ll check my cue is on the line while doing my feathers and at the same time I’ll be flicking my focus between the object ball and the cue ball. Once I feel happy everything is good I draw the cue back, making sure I draw back on the line of the shot, pause and then play the shot. At the moment the cue starts moving forward I’ll kinda be half looking at the cue ball and half looking a couple of feet in front down the line I want the cue to follow through, if it’s a short pot the object ball will be somewhere in my vision but not the main focus, and if it’s a long pot my eye will switch focus at the very last second between cue ball and object ball. I think when I’m playing well all this works in harmony (timing) and everything is great, when I’m struggling or not 100% concentrating, everything is kinda blurry and I can miss simple shots.

*edit.

Of course, all this happens subconsciously when your playing well! Like Richard said regards Ronnie, when your playing well and in the zone, you get down and your eyes seem to pot the balls for you! There’s little thought about cue action etc..

I find, especially in comps or when I’m under pressure, that I suddenly become conscious of what I’m doing and everything seems to be happening in slow motion? Not sure if anyone else experiences the same thing? I don’t necessarily play any worse, but suddenly the game doesn’t feel natural? If that makes sense..

Thanks for explaining the way you sight your shots. Very interesting. To me it would be like a dart player looking at the dart before he throws it and not the board. Or looking at your feet when walking and not looking where you are going if that makes sense. But if it works for you then great. Like you said many players do play with their final push looking at the white. There is no right or wrong way to do anything in the game really. We are all individuals and I suppose it’s how our own eyes, brain, and hand go about trying to complete the task ahead.
It obviously works in Golf because that’s played from the white forward.
John Higgins is the prime example of how it works with snooker.
A great post Steve
👍

[Starsky]

Excellent posts in this thread , I’m really enjoying reading it.

Looking at the cue ball or object ball , I didn’t even know what I did until I started thinking about it after reading posts on here , online stuff etc. It’s the curse of modern day with so much access to various content . I quickly put it out of my head though as like everything else I think about too much it affects my game( object ball btw )

My whole game now is basically from what I learnt in a five year period in the mid to late 80’s when I played religiously . I was surrounded by very good players and nobody at that time was discussing what ball they looked at , pre shot routine , correct stance etc and we were all kids knocking in tons for fun with barely any coaching going on . We all learnt just by playing better players and by time spent on the table making mistakes and learning by them .
It’s a pity nowadays players natural style of playing is mainly replaced by intense coaching once they reach a certain level .
Of course you will always get the odd players who breaks through who have been allowed to play with their natural style and it’s no coincidence those same players tend to be the fans favourites.

[Danger Steve]

At the end of the day practice is what you need to reach a good level! Since starting playing again 2 years ago and playing pretty much every day, I’ve gone from having a high break of 50 to last week knocking in a 98 (missing a very thin black for a 105 clearance)!

[mikee]

[QUOTE=Danger Steve;n1023639]At the end of the day practice is what you need to reach a good level! Since starting playing again 2 years ago and playing pretty much every day, I

[mikee]

Was that 98 in practice or a game Steve ?
As for what ball to look at when delivering the cue ,looking at the white ball at the final point of strike would be like driving a car looking at the steering wheel for me ,but everyone’s different so players can do what’s right for them .As in all sports these days coaching is so complicated and intense your head can get full of crap with all the advice

[Danger Steve]

Was that 98 in practice or a game Steve ?
As for what ball to look at when delivering the cue ,looking at the white ball at the final point of strike would be like driving a car looking at the steering wheel for me ,but everyone’s different so players can do what’s right for them .As in all sports these days coaching is so complicated and intense your head can get full of crap with all the advice

In practice , but it’s still comparable to my practice over the past two years and being that I solo practice more than I do games against others, odds are Im going to get better breaks in practice I guess. In matches I feel my general standard has improved, just waiting for those bigger breaks to start appearing in matches and I’ll be a happy man!

Yeah, I mean with the cue ball as I say it’s literally back and forth between object and cue ball, obviously you need to see where your aiming for. For me it’s as though as I deliver the cue my eye goes with it and through the cue ball a split second before the cue, as though your hitting the white with your eyes and making it go to the point on the object ball you want to hit.. not sure how else to explain it really? But no, not just looking at the white and nothing else! Like you say that would be like driving while looking at the steering wheel, pretty dangerous I’d imagine

[Richard pincott]

In practice , but it’s still comparable to my practice over the past two years and being that I solo practice more than I do games against others, odds are Im going to get better breaks in practice I guess. In matches I feel my general standard has improved, just waiting for those bigger breaks to start appearing in matches and I’ll be a happy man!

Yeah, I mean with the cue ball as I say it’s literally back and forth between object and cue ball, obviously you need to see where your aiming for. For me it’s as though as I deliver the cue my eye goes with it and through the cue ball a split second before the cue, as though your hitting the white with your eyes and making it go to the point on the object ball you want to hit.. not sure how else to explain it really? But no, not just looking at the white and nothing else! Like you say that would be like driving while looking at the steering wheel, pretty dangerous I’d imagine

I know what you are trying to say. You are watching the white from the start and down its path towards the object ball as your main focus so to speak. I see it in my peripheral vision as it approaches the object ball 🤔 Sort of opposite lol. Even for me a player who’s eyes are transfixed on the object ball before I pull the cue back, there are times when I have to look at the white. Chinese for instance. Using a spider and if I am bang on the top rail. Especially if the table has slightly higher cushions. Certain swerve shots. But I never feel comfortable doing it because I can’t see what I aiming for lol 😆
If it comes naturally to you to play that way and you play well then all well and good.
Its all very interesting. 👍

[itsnoteasy]

I used to pick a point on the object ball but it was too tiring on my eyes so I changed to just sending the cue ball straight down the tube, as Richard called it and hitting the over lap. It's so much easier and far more relaxing. So I've no idea what I'm looking at, more the line and the overlap rather than staring at the object ball if that makes any sense.

[Danger Steve]

Going back to Richard’s point regards Steve Davis, I think the robotic cue action that he ‘invented’ was to achieve a consistent cue action that he could rely on under pressure and get more results, it obviously worked very well for him! I remember an interview with Ronnie when he was talking about his influences as a young player and how he liked Jimmy’s style of play but in the end decided to copy Davis (for obvious reasons ). I think that’s why now the modern game is so robotic, it’s just how it’s evolved from the Davis era… I know myself, when I use to play snooker years ago I didn’t even think about pre-shot routines, cue action or eye dominance, I just played fast and furious and if they went in I was happy enough! Coming back to the game I sort of started out a bit this way, but with all the You Tube coaching videos these days I quite quickly started to think more about how I approached the game. Also playing lots of different players of a good standard really helped to study what they were doing.

So my point is, players are robotic but because the competition are also playing robotic and everybody want to do what they can to be consistent and hopefully win more often. Playing like it means nothing is great when the balls are going in, but when your struggling trying to play with flare just don’t work.. I think though this ‘robotism’ is more common at a top amateur/pro level? Your average club player just wants to knock balls in like Jimmy or Judd!

Funnily enough last Sunday after knocking out two -24 handicap level players in round 1 & 2 at the Atack comp, both guys started complaining that I shouldn’t be playing off +24 because I don’t play like a 24 handicapper? I think they meant my routine & cue action was too good…. Although I pointed out to them they played zero safety game against me and just kept leaving me on to make small breaks which is how I won both games! What happened in round 3? Soundly beaten 3-0 by a guy off scratch, why? Because he gave me a bit more respect and played safe! Simples. So does that mean just because you look the part and had a couple of good wins I should have my handicap chopped to +8 for the next event? Sorry gone a bit off topic there with my rant . What I was getting at though is that at that club level players assume because I took my time and wasn’t running round trying to pot balls like Jimmy white that I must be a top player? Nope, I’m just trying to play with a consistent action that I have been for a while now because I know it’s the only way I can hold it together in a match situation.

[Danger Steve]

I used to pick a point on the object ball but it was too tiring on my eyes so I changed to just sending the cue ball straight down the tube, as Richard called it and hitting the over lap. It's so much easier and far more relaxing. So I've no idea what I'm looking at, more the line and the overlap rather than staring at the object ball if that makes any sense.

I do the same when it comes to finding the right angle! Just image the edge of the white hitting the object ball where I think it will be correct to make the pot! None of this ghost ball nonsense… and have you noticed when your in the zone, you seem to just pick up on this point instantly? When I’m struggling I have to really concentrate on finding the right point and I don’t always get it right! And sometimes I can’t even get the white to that point! But I’m guessing that a cueing issue?

[Richard pincott]

I used to pick a point on the object ball but it was too tiring on my eyes so I changed to just sending the cue ball straight down the tube, as Richard called it and hitting the over lap. It's so much easier and far more relaxing. So I've no idea what I'm looking at, more the line and the overlap rather than staring at the object ball if that makes any sense.

I know exactly what you mean.
In fact I tend to use this method on long safety shots back to baulk as in most cases the main objective of the shot is opposite to potting.
The path of the white and where you want it is the main task for the eyes instead of the object ball if you get what I mean.

[vmax]

Was that 98 in practice or a game Steve ?
As for what ball to look at when delivering the cue ,looking at the white ball at the final point of strike would be like driving a car looking at the steering wheel for me ,but everyone’s different so players can do what’s right for them .As in all sports these days coaching is so complicated and intense your head can get full of crap with all the advice

Nobody's different in regards to hand/eye co-ordination, the target is the object ball and that is what all top players look at regardless of where they think they look. John Higgins doesn't look at the cue ball on the strike, that look up after he contacts the cue ball is when he looks at the peripheral view, the eye movement between cue ball and object ball is very small as both are on the same horizontal plane of vision, the look up to the peripheral view is a bigger movement and is easily seen and misinterpreted.
Like Richard says a dart player doesn't look at the dart in his hand when he throws it, in fact he doen't look at it at all and this is something we snooker players can learn from, to treat the cue ball as the arrow in your bow.
Notch the arrow to the end of your cue as you address the cue ball and then forget it as it doesn't move, focus then only on the contact point on the object ball and allow your hand to follow your eye.

When I'm making a cue I don't look at the plane in my hand, I look where the plane will start and end up after the cutting stroke is finished, if I look at the plane the plane will wander, if I look at where the plane will end up it goes there straight and smooth every time.
This is the beauty of hand/eye co-ordination, you know where the tool is because your hand can feel it and if you then look at where you wish the tool to go your hand will put it there, try knocking in a nail and look only at the hammer ouch!

[vmax]

You can't actually find a very small spot on the object ball where the cue ball will contact it, this is what I mean by looking at the contact point on the object ball, the dark blue where the two balls overlap

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[Danger Steve]

Nobody's different in regards to hand/eye co-ordination, the target is the object ball and that is what all top players look at regardless of where they think they look. John Higgins doesn't look at the cue ball on the strike, that look up after he contacts the cue ball is when he looks at the peripheral view, the eye movement between cue ball and object ball is very small as both are on the same horizontal plane of vision, the look up to the peripheral view is a bigger movement and is easily seen and misinterpreted.
Like Richard says a dart player doesn't look at the dart in his hand when he throws it, in fact he doen't look at it at all and this is something we snooker players can learn from, to treat the cue ball as the arrow in your bow.
Notch the arrow to the end of your cue as you address the cue ball and then forget it as it doesn't move, focus then only on the contact point on the object ball and allow your hand to follow your eye.

When I'm making a cue I don't look at the plane in my hand, I look where the plane will start and end up after the cutting stroke is finished, if I look at the plane the plane will wander, if I look at where the plane will end up it goes there straight and smooth every time.
This is the beauty of hand/eye co-ordination, you know where the tool is because your hand can feel it and if you then look at where you wish the tool to go your hand will put it there, try knocking in a nail and look only at the hammer ouch!

In snooker though, the dart is the cue and the thing the cue hits (the dart board) is the cue ball, not the object ball. Just saying…

As I mentioned, even players that are ‘cue ball watchers’ have to look at the object ball at some point, for me and I’m guessing other cue ball players, this is usually a last second subconscious switch from cue ball to object just as your coming forward with the cue to strike the cue ball, like Higgins! Yes I think if you were still looking at the cue ball the exact second you hit it then that is wrong.