why the cue goes offline when down

[snookerror]

I have a centre jointed cue which makes this easy. I haven't tried it with a 3/4 length.
1. Remove the shaft from the cue, and stand at one corner of the table.
2. Put the shaft on the table, with the tip pointing towards the far diagonal corner pocket, and the back end at the corner pocket in front of you.
3. Put a cue ball in front of the tip, and an object ball halfway to the far pocket, ensuring everything's in a straight line.
4. Get behind your shaft and bend down, and fine tune the aiming so it's pointing in a straight line from one corner pocket, through the cue ball, through the object ball, into the far corner pocket.

Now you know the cue shaft is pointing in a straight line for a straight shot into the corner.

What you want to find is how your body and head have to be oriented so your eyes see the same thing when you're bent over the shaft.

Now without touching the shaft, bend over the table as if you were shooting a shot.
Move your head from side to side seeing how the perspective changes. You'll find one perspective that you can agree 'that shaft is pointing straight through the balls into the far pocket'.
When you find that perspective, note if the shaft is below the center of your chin or to one side. Some people have the shaft below one eye, some have it partway between the chin and the eye.
Think about if your head is straight or tilted to one side. If it's leaning a bit, try straightening it and see how that changes your perspective.

Now stand back up. Take a couple of steps back, then step into the shot and bend over the shaft again. Are you able to get that 'perfect line'? Try it a few times until you can bend over the shaft and have your eyes and brain agree that the shaft is pointing along the shot line.

thank you very much tried in the club but when i move my head side to side i cannot detect which one is better, all looks similare, i have been cueing with centre chin and used to that and which is wrong and i have trained my eyes in a very wrong setup. when i do not use my chin even when i am down, i can 100% see the perfect line and to my friends it looks straight too, but as soon as i cue with chin my tip starts pointing else where.
its just the chin that causing problems

[snookerror]

Your mind isn't compensating for anything, your eyes are no different to anyone elses in the regard that we all see a straight line (line of aim/cue) with only one eye as the picture our mind receives from both eyes means that each eye sees a cue; so the brain will subconsciously favour one eye to place the cue (straight line) on the line of aim (straight line).

If you're a right hander and you're aiming to the left of the pocket then you need to place your left foot further forward; this will turn the body, therefore the cue arm and cue also, to the right as it pivots around the right foot until you're aiming centre pocket.
If you were aiming to the right of the pocket then your left foot would need to come further back, it really is that simple but keeping still on the shot and delivering the cue straight is still something to work on but it's so much easier once the whole of the cue is on the line of aim.

you are right, when i use no chin and i play like pool players with no chin, i have no problem and even my friend can tell me that i am pointing to pot the ball, but as soon as i touch the chin to the cue i tent to make adjustment unconciously maybe, however it just points in the wrong directions, tried with right chin and left chin, but im so used to centre chin i might still be making adjustment and i still point my tip in the wrong direction and i miss the shot.

the only evidence that i have is that if i dont use my chin, everything is perfect, the lining, the aim , everything

[vmax]

you are right, when i use no chin and i play like pool players with no chin, i have no problem and even my friend can tell me that i am pointing to pot the ball, but as soon as i touch the chin to the cue i tent to make adjustment unconciously maybe, however it just points in the wrong directions, tried with right chin and left chin, but im so used to centre chin i might still be making adjustment and i still point my tip in the wrong direction and i miss the shot.

the only evidence that i have is that if i dont use my chin, everything is perfect, the lining, the aim , everything

Like I said before, you're adjusting your stance/moving your feet when getting down. You might not think so but there's no other explanation. Forget where you want the cue to touch your chin, just lower yourself down from your pool position without any movement of your feet at all, no slight turn of the heel or ball of either foot and everything should stay as it was.

[snookerror]

Like I said before, you're adjusting your stance/moving your feet when getting down. You might not think so but there's no other explanation. Forget where you want the cue to touch your chin, just lower yourself down from your pool position without any movement of your feet at all, no slight turn of the heel or ball of either foot and everything should stay as it was.

thank you, i understand what you mean but i think i have difficulty finding my vision centre, here is an example.

when i lineup with no chin things are perfect but as soon as i touch my centre chin after few features the butt of the cue goes offline and i pause at that moment the butt of the cue is offline towards my right which poins the cue tip to the left.

i tried with right chin and it brings the butt even more, i tried with my left chin and its less offline than when i cue under right chin. however i cannot decide if left chin holds the cue online of aim perfect of centre chin. bcaz i am so used to playing with centre chin for years and its hard to know which position is best to hold the cue online even after featuring...

another example is that if i put the cue on baulk line and touch my centre chin, i can see the baulk line from left side of the cue, so the cue is not covering the baulk line, this is why i am quite sure it has to do something with my vision centre, but as i said i am so used to playing with centre chin that if i use my right chin and left chin the object still looks online however in reality the butt of the cue is offline, but i cannot tell which chin position holds the cue online of aim

thank you for your replies, it means alot as i really want to get out of this error zone

[snookerror]

I have a centre jointed cue which makes this easy. I haven't tried it with a 3/4 length.
1. Remove the shaft from the cue, and stand at one corner of the table.
2. Put the shaft on the table, with the tip pointing towards the far diagonal corner pocket, and the back end at the corner pocket in front of you.
3. Put a cue ball in front of the tip, and an object ball halfway to the far pocket, ensuring everything's in a straight line.
4. Get behind your shaft and bend down, and fine tune the aiming so it's pointing in a straight line from one corner pocket, through the cue ball, through the object ball, into the far corner pocket.

Now you know the cue shaft is pointing in a straight line for a straight shot into the corner.

What you want to find is how your body and head have to be oriented so your eyes see the same thing when you're bent over the shaft.

Now without touching the shaft, bend over the table as if you were shooting a shot.
Move your head from side to side seeing how the perspective changes. You'll find one perspective that you can agree 'that shaft is pointing straight through the balls into the far pocket'.
When you find that perspective, note if the shaft is below the center of your chin or to one side. Some people have the shaft below one eye, some have it partway between the chin and the eye.
Think about if your head is straight or tilted to one side. If it's leaning a bit, try straightening it and see how that changes your perspective.

Now stand back up. Take a couple of steps back, then step into the shot and bend over the shaft again. Are you able to get that 'perfect line'? Try it a few times until you can bend over the shaft and have your eyes and brain agree that the shaft is pointing along the shot line.

thank you, i understand what you mean but i think i have difficulty finding my vision centre, here is an example.

when i lineup with no chin things are perfect but as soon as i touch my centre chin after few features the butt of the cue goes offline and i pause at that moment the butt of the cue is offline towards my right which poins the cue tip to the left.

i tried with right chin and it brings the butt even more, i tried with my left chin and its less offline than when i cue under right chin. however i cannot decide if left chin holds the cue online of aim perfect of centre chin. bcaz i am so used to playing with centre chin for years and its hard to know which position is best to hold the cue online even after featuring...

another example is that if i put the cue on baulk line and touch my centre chin, i can see the baulk line from left side of the cue, so the cue is not covering the baulk line, this is why i am quite sure it has to do something with my vision centre, but as i said i am so used to playing with centre chin that if i use my right chin and left chin the object still looks online however in reality the butt of the cue is offline, but i cannot tell which chin position holds the cue online of aim

thank you for your replies, it means alot as i really want to get out of this error zon

[Ramon]

when i lineup with no chin things are perfect

Keep it that way !!

If I were you I wouldn't change a thing. I know many
players who're using 2-3 point of contact technique and
they still are able to play the game in a decent level. nothing wrong with that .


just a suggestion !!!!

[snookerror]

Keep it that way !!

If I were you I wouldn't change a thing. I know many
players who're using 2-3 point of contact technique and
they still are able to play the game in a decent level. nothing wrong with that .


just a suggestion !!!!

thank you for your suggestion but
the thing is that I hardly manage to make 20 break, and its been 10 years that i have been playing this game, and i play 6 hours daily. even the club players are suprised why i miss pots because they say they like my tecnique, cue action, cue power but they do not know that i am having centre vision problem ;(

[snookerror]

thank you for your suggestion but
the thing is that I hardly manage to make 20 break, and its been 10 years that i have been playing this game, and i play 6 hours daily. even the club players are suprised why i miss pots because they say they like my tecnique, cue action, cue power but they do not know that i am having centre vision problem ;(

what i meant is that i only mentioned in earlier post that if i do not play with chin things are good, but normally i have always been using my chin and without chin i cannot play this game, feels like i am used to it alot

[mikee]

When you say you struggle to make a twenty break ,is that in solo practice too ? ,what’s your highest break in Practice and in a game .There's only really two reasons why you miss ,not cueing straight and or not sighting correctly .Go see a coach ,I’m sure he could find your problem pretty quickly .Seems to me me your chasing your tail and getting nowhere by yourself ,after 10 years of playing you should be able to knock fifty breaks in standing on one leg .

[snookerror]

When you say you struggle to make a twenty break ,is that in solo practice too ? ,what’s your highest break in Practice and in a game .There's only really two reasons why you miss ,not cueing straight and or not sighting correctly .Go see a coach ,I’m sure he could find your problem pretty quickly .Seems to me me your chasing your tail and getting nowhere by yourself ,after 10 years of playing you should be able to knock fifty breaks in standing on one leg .

i have seen many coaches in the past including one few months ago , where i had to book him for entire 7 days camp. however my cue butt was always offline even when i seen other coaches in the past and had this alignment problem which is not due to bad stance or bringing the cue to the chest etc. even before starting my features and hitting the ball.

most coaches just kept teaching me break building, slow back swing, cue ball control, how to use sides etc. i really could not find anyone who could fix my vision centre problem. although some coaches saw that my cue tip is pointing else where as soon as i am in address position. but could not find why.... so i had to do all these hard work to find why.

and recently i know that if i remove my chin from the cue then i can point my cue tip where intended. but as soon as i touch my chin i start pointing the cue tip wrong, and ofcourse i have always been using my centre chin. but with right chin and left chin things are changes, however i cannot confirm myself which chin position is best for me.

yesterday i checked my eyes and i found out that my eyes are healthy, and my right eye is dominant but my left eye is only 5% stronger than my right eye.

the other test i did myself in the club was that lined up my cue perfectly with baulk line and i touched my normal chin position which is centre chin position. and i can see that the cue is not covering the baulk line and i can see the baulk line from the left side of the cue. but when i touch my right chin its quite the same but if i lineup with my left chin then my cue covers the baulk line and i no longer see the line.

i do not know what it means, but i read somewhere in an article that if you can see the baulk line while your chin is touching the cue then your head is in the wrong position.

[mikee]

I think you would have to have your head below the cushion to not see the baulk line ,that’s impossible imo ,well You can see the baulk line in front of the tip of the cue ,that’s normal.
So what’s your highest break in a game and in practice ,it’s important to know so we see how you are as a player after 10 years

[Ramon]

thank you for your suggestion but
the thing is that I hardly manage to make 20 break, and its been 10 years that i have been playing this game, and i play 6 hours daily.

Have you considered the possibility that snooker may not be your game ?
sum players do not have a good ,,hand-eye coordination,, .
sometimes snooker is not your game, eventhough you don't like the idea.


btw ,
when you move your chin up and down , are you absolutely sure you keep your body
(especially your right shoulder- elbow and your head ) still ??

No SIDEWARDE Movements at all ??
you may wanna take a look at this video . watch his body when he moves his chin up and down
and listen to what he says .

Anyway , keep an eye on this topic. i'm sure you get more opinions/advice from members and i hope
you get sorted out at the end and enjoy the game .

[vmax]

i have seen many coaches in the past including one few months ago , where i had to book him for entire 7 days camp. however my cue butt was always offline even when i seen other coaches in the past and had this alignment problem which is not due to bad stance or bringing the cue to the chest etc. even before starting my features and hitting the ball.

most coaches just kept teaching me break building, slow back swing, cue ball control, how to use sides etc. i really could not find anyone who could fix my vision centre problem. although some coaches saw that my cue tip is pointing else where as soon as i am in address position. but could not find why.... so i had to do all these hard work to find why.

and recently i know that if i remove my chin from the cue then i can point my cue tip where intended. but as soon as i touch my chin i start pointing the cue tip wrong, and ofcourse i have always been using my centre chin. but with right chin and left chin things are changes, however i cannot confirm myself which chin position is best for me.

yesterday i checked my eyes and i found out that my eyes are healthy, and my right eye is dominant but my left eye is only 5% stronger than my right eye.

the other test i did myself in the club was that lined up my cue perfectly with baulk line and i touched my normal chin position which is centre chin position. and i can see that the cue is not covering the baulk line and i can see the baulk line from the left side of the cue. but when i touch my right chin its quite the same but if i lineup with my left chin then my cue covers the baulk line and i no longer see the line.

i do not know what it means, but i read somewhere in an article that if you can see the baulk line while your chin is touching the cue then your head is in the wrong position.

It's pretty obvious you're standing in the wrong place or moving your upper body because you're overiding your natural sighting by mucking about with chin position. If you insist that your eyes are misleading you then you'll stay where you have been for the last ten years.
Forget your chin, forget your dominant eye and just do the basics of looking at the contact point on the object ball in relation to the position of the cue ball, that's the line of aim so stand behind this line as you see it best.

Then try this to line up the shot correctly, step into your stance position by placing your right foot on that line while looking at the cue ball, this should allow your right hand to follow your right foot and place the butt of the cue in the correct place. Then switch your focus to the contact point on the object ball as you place your left foot, then get down, without moving your feet, while looking at the cue ball and addressing the tip of the cue centre cue ball.
Look up and focus on the contact point of the object ball, bring the cue back slowly and deliver it while still focussing on the contact point of the object ball.
You hit what you're looking at in this game and you line up the shot while looking at certain targets at certain times in the shot making process, so if it isn't natural to you then you must find a system that works and stick to it.

And I don't want a reply to this saying that your eyes are misleading you and that I don't understand what you're going through, you're wrong and you must admit that before you can move forward. What I've suggested may not work for you exactly but it's the genesis of a technique of aiming that only needs to be adjusted slightly in order for it to work for anyone.
How someone can play six hours a day for ten years and still struggle to make a twenty break defeats me to be honest.

[mikee]

Probably a better idea to take up darts or tiddlywinks

[snookerror]

It's pretty obvious you're standing in the wrong place or moving your upper body because you're overiding your natural sighting by mucking about with chin position. If you insist that your eyes are misleading you then you'll stay where you have been for the last ten years.
Forget your chin, forget your dominant eye and just do the basics of looking at the contact point on the object ball in relation to the position of the cue ball, that's the line of aim so stand behind this line as you see it best.

Then try this to line up the shot correctly, step into your stance position by placing your right foot on that line while looking at the cue ball, this should allow your right hand to follow your right foot and place the butt of the cue in the correct place. Then switch your focus to the contact point on the object ball as you place your left foot, then get down, without moving your feet, while looking at the cue ball and addressing the tip of the cue centre cue ball.
Look up and focus on the contact point of the object ball, bring the cue back slowly and deliver it while still focussing on the contact point of the object ball.
You hit what you're looking at in this game and you line up the shot while looking at certain targets at certain times in the shot making process, so if it isn't natural to you then you must find a system that works and stick to it.

And I don't want a reply to this saying that your eyes are misleading you and that I don't understand what you're going through, you're wrong and you must admit that before you can move forward. What I've suggested may not work for you exactly but it's the genesis of a technique of aiming that only needs to be adjusted slightly in order for it to work for anyone.
How someone can play six hours a day for ten years and still struggle to make a twenty break defeats me to be honest.

thank you max
today i found something new, well i spent 6 hours just lining up straight shot and kept moving my head for 6 hours until i finally found something.
i lined up a long blue lined up straight with cueball and cue and then tried moving my head side to side, i realized that if i change from my normal chin position which is centre to right chin and left chin, i cannot see much difference maybe becaz i am so used to centre chin. however i also looked at the cueball too and when i normally use my centre chin, my eyes think that i am putting left hand side while the tip is dead centre, and if i use left chin then my eyes tell me that i am putting even more left side. but when i used right chin then a centre looks centre to me. but as i said the object ball looks the same in all chin positions, maybe because i am so used to bad habbits.
Now atleast i know why i was compensating and putting right hand side on cue ball unintentionally when i was using my centre chin. because normally when i use centre chin a dead centre does look abit of left hand side to me and that is why unintentionally i put right hand side which makes me think i am aiming centre cueball now which in reality its wrong


i also found one thing else. instead of using my right chin which helps to see a dead centre centre, if i tilt my head to the left which brings my right eye over the cue then i no longer need to use my right chin, bcaz as i tilt my head to the left the centre chin comes online to the cue , but it hurts alot.

so i think i have 2 options, either to tilt to left and use centre chin or use my right chin

Please correct me, if i am doing something wrong here based on what i found in practice
thanks huge