Use the Arrows on the cue to aim

[Mr O]

Don't agree with those who've said that grain isn't important and so on. How can you say that you should just be looking at the balls and the line of the shot when you're always going to see your cue pointing at them?? The points in the grain on an ash shaft definitely help some players aim. I'ts a bit like saying you shouldn't need a sight on a rifle cause you should see where the barrel is pointing and look down the line of the barrel.? I use Ash for this reason but if the grain is messy I'd sooner use a Maple.
If this wasn't true then why do most makers make cues with the points badge side up? Are millions of people wrong?

[RGCirencester]

As Trev has said people make cues this way because thats what people want. I personally do not see how the chevrons can be of any use as your attention should be on the object ball and it is impossible for your eyes to focus on the cue underneath your chin and the object ball some ditance away. On a rifle the sights sit on top of the barrel, you could argue such a thing might be of use in snooker but it is simply not neccesary. Why do rifles not simply have arrows painted on the top of them if it is the same thing? Certain players order shafts with the arrows pointing the oposite way if that is what they like. If anyone finds them useful then fair play but i personally don't see how it could possibly help.

[trevs1]

Don't agree with those who've said that grain isn't important and so on. How can you say that you should just be looking at the balls and the line of the shot when you're always going to see your cue pointing at them?? The points in the grain on an ash shaft definitely help some players aim. I'ts a bit like saying you shouldn't need a sight on a rifle cause you should see where the barrel is pointing and look down the line of the barrel.? I use Ash for this reason but if the grain is messy I'd sooner use a Maple.
If this wasn't true then why do most makers make cues with the points badge side up? Are millions of people wrong?

The problem with "what millions of people say" is that many of them do ask for grain like this or that simply because they think it's what they 'SHOULD' ask for, Not because they've learnt it's what they actually prefer in a cue from experience.

I don't disagree at all that grain running all over the place can be unsightly, and even kind of distracting if it's that bad, but as a rule, cues are not really made from material with grain this wild.

In my view, makers do now almost exclusively make cues with this grain pattern facing the same way as the name badges, but, this is more to do with what many people want it to be like, even if they couldn't really explain why they like it like that. There are equally as many people that will use a cue flat facing down when playing, so where does that leave them when the grain is facing the floor?

The simple truth is, that grain shape or pattern makes no difference to the correct sighting of a shot from a technical standpoint, as it just does not enter the equation. BUT, if it's important to the player, then it's important, end of.

There are just as many players who couldn't play with a cue which had an iffy ferrule, or a bend, or uneven splices, or a blotch on the ebony, and so on and so on.

It's for the INDIVIDUAL to decide.

Still, in reply to the original poster of this thread, no, it makes no difference or holds no benefit.

[KeithinFrance]

a "good technique for vendors to sell cues".....well,
I'd love it if people weren't so hung up about how many arrows run up the front side of the shaft, and how many growth ring lines there are per inch thickness of timber, or, that there must not be any reverse facing arrows on the opposite side of the shaft (yes, the one they aren't even looking at) etc etc, it would make my life, and no doubt the lives of other makers, far more simple.

So, is it a good thing for us who make and sell cues???

No, it's a complete headache trying to source and grade timber to display these kind of pointless markings which people appear to be obsessed with.
Hiya Trev, I agreed with what was written concerning the arrow technique being a good technique for vendors to sell cues and I still feel it's true, although I agree entirely with everything else you've said, because I make the distinction between a vendor and a maker.

For me, a vendor is someone who sells a product and who will use any technique to sell, including telling porkie pies about the product. I know I've read somewhere that a cue with a lot of chevrons is more responsive than a cue with a few chevrons. I also know that that is a sweeping generalisation which is totally wrong!

So, where does it come from? From the makers, who choose straight-grained wood in a timber yard and then taper them into cues, noting along the way which piece is more or less responsive? I don't think so. I believe that this sort of cue urban myth was started by sellers who didn't have the technical knowledge necessary to sell correctly and so resorted to sweeping generalisations based on the cues they had in stock, perhaps not of the best quality. A lot of the poorer cues I've seen have had lots of chevrons and haven't been too stiff, perhaps giving rise to this legend which then becomes accepted wisdom. What they don't know is that these cues are made from the poorer quality wood that costs less to buy and is not carefully selected for the straightness of its grain.

A top quality cue is well-made and -finished and tends to be noticed, and a good player's cue tends to be noticed too, so, if you've seen a person play really well with a cue, you say to yourself: "if I had a cue like that..." forgetting that it's not the cue that makes the player but the player that makes the cue. And that's one reason why, IMO, people start on this obsessive driving search for THE PERFECT CUE, which must have X chevrons, X inches apart and ... driving poor guys like Trevor mad with requests that are just plain ridiculous!

I think it's okay to describe the sort of look you like, eg, lots of chevrons and in line with the badge, that's reasonable, but it's much more important to describe the feel you like in a cue ie very reactive and springy or stiff with a hint of give at the tip end etc. This kind of info helps the cuemaker and doesn't hinder them!

Anyway, I've rambled on for quite a bit now and my fingers are getting sore, so I'll stop. I hope what I was trying to say is clear.

Keith

[eaoin11]

"good technique for vendors to sell cues".....

When I said that I wasn't referring to you Trev or Mike, or any makers I know for that matter. I have however seen it used quite often by sellers on ebay (tho not ADR147 by recollection) and some websites that sell cues.

[KeithinFrance]

"good technique for vendors to sell cues".....

When I said that I wasn't referring to you Trev or Mike, or any makers I know for that matter. I have however seen it used quite often by sellers on ebay (tho not ADR147 by recollection) and some websites that sell cues.

What he said! (It's shorter!)

[Mr O]

[QUOTE=1lawyer;360950]I beleve I am correct in saying that John Higgins darts on his cue go the opposite way.

So he should be able to fire snooker balls out his arse?

Ha Ha Yes but that proves it's unusual otherwise you wouldn't have noticed.

[Mr O]

Lol.. of course the cuemakers would love it if people didn't ask for specifics.. they'd love it even more if every robot wanted exactly the same cue.. less work for the money.. But you can't disagree with- or underestimate the importance of a customers request for specifics of a specialized item like a custom cue.

[Mr O]

As Trev has said people make cues this way because thats what people want. I personally do not see how the chevrons can be of any use as your attention should be on the object ball and it is impossible for your eyes to focus on the cue underneath your chin and the object ball some ditance away. On a rifle the sights sit on top of the barrel, you could argue such a thing might be of use in snooker but it is simply not neccesary. Why do rifles not simply have arrows painted on the top of them if it is the same thing? Certain players order shafts with the arrows pointing the oposite way if that is what they like. If anyone finds them useful then fair play but i personally don't see how it could possibly help.

I wouldn't say its a case of your eyes focusing on the cue, more a case of peripheral vision. It seems to make the line of delivery from cue to object ball more visible. The rifle analogy isnt perfect, but I reckon if you asked a lot of players who use ash they'd say the same

[KeithinFrance]

But you can't disagree with- or underestimate the importance of a customers request for specifics of a specialized item like a custom cue.

No, of course you can't, Steve, but what I think Trev was saying is that these specifics won't help you to play better and are, in fact, a distraction from the most important thing, which is how the cue plays! The playing characteristics of a cue are much more important than the "stripes" and where they're placed. People seem to be convinced that if they get a cue with x number of stripes x" apart that that'll make them play better and it's simply not true. Ask a cuemaker for the best, most consistent piece of ash he's got and you're simplifying both his and your lives!

[Mr O]

But what gives anyone the right to tell people whay they want? Maybe to those who don't use them thery're superficial. But to the many people that do they're important. Regardless of how much more qualified Trev and yourself are to talk about cues than I, doesn't mean you're right. Why do so many more players use Ash than Maple ? Not all because of the straight lines and points but many do

[KeithinFrance]

But what gives anyone the right to tell people whay they want? Maybe to those who don't use them thery're superficial. But to the many people that do they're important. Regardless of how much more qualified Trev and yourself are to talk about cues than I, doesn't mean you're right. Why do so many more players use Ash than Maple ? Not all because of the straight lines and points but many do

But no-one's telling anyone what they want, Steve. As far as I can see, all people're trying to do is point out that lots of people focus on the wrong thing and for the wrong reasons, that's all! Yes, I agree that the arrows and the looks of the cue are important, but not to sight down, as this thread is about, as all this does is distract you from your true focus, which should be the balls! Aesthetically speaking, they have their importance, and if you're paying for a top-of-the-range cue then you have the right to ask for specific grain patterns if you think it's important to you, but at least ask for the right reasons.

Trev is more qualified to speak about cues than us, but I'm just a player who asks a lot of questions and listens to what cuemakers reply, that's all! I'm not better qualified than you to talk about cues, and my opinion is no more valid than yours but I've just picked up a little information from the best sources: the cuemakers!

Concerning ash or maple, it's always been traditional in the UK to use ash rather than maple for snooker, and perhaps if we'd used maple since nineteen canteen then we'd not be having this discussion now! It would certainly make the cuemakers life easier, and sighting easier too. Just by the by, in the world the percentage of maple to ash is about 95% to 5%, but in the UK those proportions are inversed! Of course, there are reasons, like the prevalence of ash in the UK but elsewhere in the world, there's a lot of ash, like in North America, but they still choose to use maple for their cues! I wonder why that is? Cuemakers in the US always talk about the consistency of maple and consistency is what is important in a cue, not lines in the wood.

[Mr O]

But as far as I know, there is nothing in the textbooks regarding use of grain. You could argue from a purists point of view that grain should not be used to line up a shot, but that's not to say you are correct in saying that it does not help a lot of players. Sorry Keith we'll have to agree to disagree on this one mate. And also I don't believe that certain grain configurations are preferred by players purely for aesthetic reasons. Why do you think a Parris ultimate costs the extra for perfect 3 arrows? To look right? No, because when you sight a shot it helps some people to see the line in their peripheral vision. Each to their own though eh?

[Mr O]

And American pool? you could use a broom to pot balls on those tables, good game but technically different to snooker

[RGCirencester]

If the parris ultimate is made with the perfect arrows to aid in sighting, why is the maple counterpart not made with a black line drawn straight down the centre? Surely this would have the same if not better effect? I agree with keith here and we are just going to have to, as you say, agree to disagree