Particular type of shot

[Terry Davidson]

will:

When playing off the cushion be sure to shorten your grip until your grip arm forearm is in front of the vertical by 3 inches or so and then be certain to drive the grip hand to the chest. This is a tip from the Griffiths school

Terry

[willtyson]

Thanks, I will try this when next practicing :snooker:

[Terry Davidson]

dannyboy:

On your post #223 I think you meant blue on spot, cueball on yellow spot and potting the blue into the LEFT top pocket and if you use right-hand side with this shot (no need to) you would be pushing the cueball to the LEFT initially so logically you would aim to hit the blue a little thinner.

But that said, you don't need to or shouldn't use side at all on this shot as centre-ball screw will do the same thing since you will get some spin on the cueball (a little bit) from the angled contact with the blue

Terry

[Dannyboy]

Thank's Terry,

Another thing i found very intereting was when i received some snooker coaching in Ireland from PJ Nolan, he showed me aiming points into pockets from different angles using a laser beam and when he placed a red in the jaw of the pockets and shined the laser at the middle of the red then lifted up the red the laser then shone into the left or right side of the back of the pocket depending where you are shooting from so now i very rarely aim for the middle of the pocket because it is not the correct aiming point.

Danny

[Dannyboy]

How to play a stun run through moving the white a little forward after impact?

Danny

[jrc750]

How to play a stun run through moving the white a little forward after impact?

Danny

Hit the cueball only just above centre, its a shot you need to practice a lot to get right

[Dannyboy]

I have tried that but the white still goes too far forward, how hard do you play the shot ie strength ?

[jrc750]

I have tried that but the white still goes too far forward, how hard do you play the shot ie strength ?

Well if your running too far thro, re set the shot and hit a bit lower on the white until you get it right. As for strength it all depends on situation your in, distance between balls, distance to pocket etc, its something that comes with regular playing, not easy to say in words.

[jrc750]

Plus its more of a punch stroke, don't try to follow thro with the cue

[Dannyboy]

Ok Thank's

[Terry Davidson]

jrc:

I hesitate to disagree but I feel I must as a players should NEVER limit the follow-through in any shot unless the ball are close together. A stun-run-through shot is just a normal shot where a player would normally hit just above centre and they are normally played at medium pace or better.

The reason most professionals use this type of shot is to avoid using a gentle roll-in shot and allow the cueball to 'float' to the correct position as with a very gentle shot there is the danger that the player will not follow-through all the way and end up missing the shot or in the amateur case the table may roll off or the object ball might hit a finger mark at slow speed and run off.

The stun-run-through is a shot that has to be practiced a lot to perfect and also keep in mind that normally the pros play under identical conditions all the time and don't then ever complain if one of their tables plays differently from what they're used to. For us amateurs it's a lot tougher since we would normally play on tables with more used cloths, slower speed and maybe even a lighter cueball. Until you're used to the table a stun-run-through is a tricky thing but ALWAYS follow through on ANY shot

Terry

[nrage]

I have tried that but the white still goes too far forward, how hard do you play the shot ie strength ?

The key to understanding stun run thru and other shots is to first understand the physics involved.

[THEORY ALERT]
When you strike the white ball, it starts to move by sliding/skidding forward along the cloth. At some point the friction between the leading edge of the bottom of the ball and cloth exceeds the 'sliding' force (not sure what it is exactly), and the ball starts to roll and in a short space of time reaches what is called 'natural' roll. Natural roll is where the forward rotation of the ball is equal to the product of it's velocity and diameter or in other words it's rolling without any skidding/sliding, it is not overspinning (wheelspin like in a car) or underspinning (sliding).

So, the harder you hit the ball, the faster it goes, and the longer it will skid/slide for because the sliding force is stronger than the friction force for longer. There is some relationship between the friction force and the velocity which means the friction force is not constant, otherwise all shots would develop forward roll at the same 'speed's, which may in fact be the case I'm not entirely sure. Also, any 'jump' off the table nullifys the friction altogether for a while.

Next, when the white strikes another ball, full ball, it will stop dead. Always. Or rather, it will lose all of it's forward velocity. However, if the white had any forward roll before impact, it will retain that forward rotation, and this rotation, like a wheel spinning car tire, will create forward velocity. So, the white will quickly develop forward velocity. This all happens so quickly that we barely register it, but you can see it in slow motion videos.

Side note: the white will always leave the object ball along the 'tangent' line, this line is at 90 degrees to the path the object ball takes, from the point of impact. Forward roll will cause it to bend forward of this line. Most shots do this quickly, but harder shots will travel along the tangent line for longer before bending forward of it.

Playing with top spin simply means that the white develops forward roll sooner, and allows you to play harder shots which develop forward roll sooner. So, when the white does impact a ball, it has forward roll and will always continue forward.

[PRACTICAL ADVICE]
So, back to the main Q. You can obtain stun run-thru in several ways. The goal is to make the white develop just a fraction of forward roll before impact, this forward roll causes the run-thru. Playing the shot too soft will mean it has roll, and will run thru too far. So, the best way is to play it as a variation on a stun shot. If you have practiced the stun shot, and know the power required to stun at various distances then all you have to do is use a touch less power and the same striking position, or strike higher with the same power. Most people prefer the latter.

So, set up a shot of 1-2 ft. Strike center ball and learn the power required to stun the white (making it stop dead on the spot), reduce the power until it does not stun.. you should have just played a run thru. Increase the power just a little until it is stunning again, now strike the white just above center with the same power. You should again get stun run-thru. Practice this for a while and get a feel for it, then increase and decrease the distance of the shot to get a feel for how it changes over distance. If you can, find a different table and see if it reacts the same, you may be able to find a table which is more 'slick' and requires less power to achieve the same results, and also a table which is less slick and needs more power for stun.

[DandyA]

excellent post nrage ... I love the physics aspects of cue sports and I'd guess you got a lot of your knowledge from Dr Dave Alciatore's fabulous website http://billiards.colostate.edu/ or maybe you have other sources?

[Dannyboy]

nrage,

Very well explained and i can understand what i have to do now to get the stun run through

Danny

[nrage]

excellent post nrage ... I love the physics aspects of cue sports and I'd guess you got a lot of your knowledge from Dr Dave Alciatore's fabulous website http://billiards.colostate.edu/ or maybe you have other sources?

I pick things up from everywhere, but you're right a lot of the physics came from Dr Dave and his amazing library of articles, formulas, and videos. The high-speed ones give you a really good idea what is really happening, the things that happen too fast to see with the naked eye.

Also Mike Page has some very easy to understand videos on various things...

Cue ball control:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FargoBil.../4/2J0I6IgLlo8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oii0UhnYjCc

Half-ball hit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zysbWeI2_ZE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vRi3Jih1Lg

Sidespin/squirt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXJ7bDafTms