Particular type of shot

[gettingbetter]

Is there any point of putting side on a ball if it doesn't hit a cushion?

[checkSide]

Aside from the people who need to play every pot with a touch of side.
There are certain situations in which it can be advantageous.

For example, if you set up a straight blue to middle, then try to pot it with left and right hand side, you will see you need to aim slightly off straight. This means you will now be able to move the cueball to the left or right of the expected straight line associated with a straight pot.

This skill can then be translated if you need to create a small angle on a straight pot, or to straighten up or widen an angle slightly on an angled pot.

This skill can be useful in rare situations where a couple of inches either way will make the difference.

[Forman]

For example, if you set up a straight blue to middle, then try to pot it with left and right hand side, you will see you need to aim slightly off straight. This means you will now be able to move the cueball to the left or right of the expected straight line associated with a straight pot.

This skill can then be translated if you need to create a small angle on a straight pot, or to straighten up or widen an angle slightly on an angled pot.

This skill can be useful in rare situations where a couple of inches either way will make the difference.

this seems to go completely against what nick barrow teaches in a couple of the lessons ive seen on thesnookergym site (i may have it wrong but would be interested to hear his opinion on this as i know he has posted on here before)

ive always been under the impression that faced with a dead straight shot you can only run straight through, stop dead or screw straight back regardless of wether you play with side or not

[checkSide]

this seems to go completely against what nick barrow teaches in a couple of the lessons ive seen on thesnookergym site (i may have it wrong but would be interested to hear his opinion on this as i know he has posted on here before)

ive always been under the impression that faced with a dead straight shot you can only run straight through, stop dead or screw straight back regardless of wether you play with side or not

Hi Forman.

I understand that it is possible to play the shot in a dead straight manner, dependant on pace and how much side you are using. However if you experiment with side, you will soon realise you cannot aim in exactly the same place as a plain ball shot every time. You must take into account 'squirt', 'swerve' and 'throw'..

Take a look at this site where a mechanical engineer has analysed all these effects with high speed video camera footage and mathematics. Read the "Instructional articles", they are very very good!

The sum of all this however is that you must adjust your aim for shots with side dependant on pace and tip offset.

The result of the aim adjustment means the cueball will take a different path after contacting the object ball.

[Forman]

Hi Forman.

I understand that it is possible to play the shot in a dead straight manner, dependant on pace and how much side you are using. However if you experiment with side, you will soon realise you cannot aim in exactly the same place as a plain ball shot every time. You must take into account 'squirt', 'swerve' and 'throw'..

Take a look at this site where a mechanical engineer has analysed all these effects with high speed video camera footage and mathematics. Read the "Instructional articles", they are very very good!

The sum of all this however is that you must adjust your aim for shots with side dependant on pace and tip offset.

The result of the aim adjustment means the cueball will take a different path after contacting the object ball.

thats a great site, lots of cool videos but i couldnt find anything showing side changing the path of the cue ball after contacting the object ball.

I understand what your saying about "squirt" and the need to allow for this when aiming using side but this shouldnt change the point on the object ball than needs to be contacted in order to pot the ball, what i mean is if you are potting a dead straight blue then you need to hit the white so it contacts the blue full ball, anything else and you will miss the pot.

i would challenge anyone to set up a dead straight blue pot it in the middle of the pocket and get the white to go anywhere other than in a straight line.

[neptar]

Well, when I first started I was trying to help my cueing, so I tried potting a straight blue to middle and following into the pocket, then doing a stun, then the screw back into pocket. Because I wasn't cueing straight, the ammount of times I missed the follow through and was wide of the pocket, and same with the screw back was worrying. So I do believe side spin can be used on straight pots to get a little bit of angle.

[Krypton]

this seems to go completely against what nick barrow teaches in a couple of the lessons ive seen on thesnookergym site (i may have it wrong but would be interested to hear his opinion on this as i know he has posted on here before)

ive always been under the impression that faced with a dead straight shot you can only run straight through, stop dead or screw straight back regardless of wether you play with side or not

Not to say anything against Nick Barrow, but you got that partially wrong, or he didn't mean it the way you got it... or...

Let me explain:
To a beginner, and, to be honest, to almost every player, I'd say the same thing: once you messed up the position to end up straight on a shot, it's only possible to move the cueball on that straight line. Stop, run through, screw back. If you are lucky, that might be enough for a good positional shot (let's say, the straight pot is a black ball off its spot - then you can screw back into the cushion at an angle and really work with the screw back distance, and, as an advanced player, with side spin also)

then, to someone who got that far: it is possible to NOT play the shot straight. that's what all the guys here are talking about. the reason a coach normally leaves this out in beginner's teaching is the difficulty to judge the shot, amount of side needed, predict the reaction of the balls and still make the pot. but among pros, the shot is well know, and sometimes called for - so you need to be able to do that when ending up straight.

imagine this:
play your straight blue with maximum left hand side on the cue ball and see what happens.
1) the blue will be thrown to the right and either miss the pocket completely, or drop in from the jaws.
2) the cue ball, as if played against a cushion with side, will be thrown to the left and therefore leave the straight line.

what you do now is this: correct the aiming - aim the blue to the left jaw, apply left hand side, and it will go into the center of the pocket. the cue ball will go to the left.
using this effect, a good cueist CAN reach almost every spot on the table out of a reasonably straight pot. the throw effect on the white normally is not enought to do so, so you got to play the shot harder, with topspin and side - the white will run through, hit the cushion just next to the center pocket's jaws and from there, side has a massive effect to throw the cueball wherever you want, once side and pace are correct.

hope that helps.

[checkSide]

thats a great site, lots of cool videos but i couldnt find anything showing side changing the path of the cue ball after contacting the object ball.

Hi Forman.

Krypton has given a good answer.

Just to clarify from my own point of view. The path of the cue ball doesn't change after contacting the object ball. All the usual rules of physics apply. What happens is the cue ball is not travelling in a straight line.

SEE HERE.

If you look at diagrams 1,2,3, and 4, you will see the path the cue ball is taking for different speed shots with different amounts of side. If you imagine your straight pot is on the straight black line in the diagrams, you will quickly see that to pot a ball along this line, the cue ball is no longer approaching in a dead straight direction. Therefore it is contacting the object ball as if you played the pot from a slight angle. The result of this is that the cue ball now reacts in the same manner as always, and comes off at a slight angle relative to the angle it approached the object ball!

I hope this clarifies my opinion!

Cheers.

[1lawyer]

You can make an angle on a straight shot by hitting it harder and their are sections of the pocket you can aim for to 'pinch' a bit on any shot even one that is perfectly straight as long as you can see the full pocket. So you can always find a slight angle, this differs according to the size and cut of the pockets though.

[stjimmy18-1991]

if you could make an angle off a dead straight blue using side....why do professionals always want screw back or run through the white to leave a long red or play a safety?

if they are such good cueists, why dont they pick the pocket....tons of side...and force the angle?

[Krypton]

because they got to minimize the risk of everything that could go wrong.
for a pro, the long red from next to the blue into the corner is a lot easier and more predictable. easy to run through 10cm, or screw exactly 15, leaving EXACTLY the angle you need. instead of hammering it in, risking the miss, just to get 30cm closer to de red with APPROXIMATELY the angle you need.
it all is a matter of weighting risks, chances, percentages.

it can be done. i can make the cueball roll over the black spot out of a dead straight blue to the middle. using cushions of course. and i'm not that good.

[stjimmy18-1991]

yes of course it can be done using the cushion, but the point was without using a cushion.

[RGCirencester]

I never understand why they dont take the yellow or brown instead of the straight blue.

[checkSide]

yes of course it can be done using the cushion, but the point was without using a cushion.

Without using a cushion the angle you can create will only give you an inch or two each way. It will make no difference to the long red you are planning to take next when you compare it to the risk of playing with side.

You see the pro's playing the shot occasionally around the black spot, when an inch or two makes the difference between being able to pot the next ball or end of break.

All you need to do is set up a straight blue and experiment potting it at different speeds, different cue elevations, and with different amounts of side. You will soon discover that you HAVE to create an angle for certain shots with side or you will miss the pot.

[Forman]

Without using a cushion the angle you can create will only give you an inch or two each way. It will make no difference to the long red you are planning to take next when you compare it to the risk of playing with side.

You see the pro's playing the shot occasionally around the black spot, when an inch or two makes the difference between being able to pot the next ball or end of break.

All you need to do is set up a straight blue and experiment potting it at different speeds, different cue elevations, and with different amounts of side. You will soon discover that you HAVE to create an angle for certain shots with side or you will miss the pot.

I think you and krypton are talking about different things.

It seems to me you're talking about swerving the cueball before it makes contact with the object ball to create an angle, fair enough this would create a slight angle on a straight shot without pinching the pocket but i cant imagine why you would ever want to try do this in a game situation, it's incredably hard to pot a ball acurately if youve swerved the cueball before contacting the object ball even for a very good player and the position a couple of inches either side of straight you gain dont seem worth the risk to me.

Do you know of any videos on youtube (or anywhere) where a pro can be seen playing this kind of shot? I watch alot of snooker and cant recall ever seeing this shot played so would be keen to see it put into practice in a frame.