side or plain ball?

[1lawyer]

I hear lots of people say they are trying to eliminate playing with side from their game and wondered why the hell they would do or say this.

Maybe I am wrong but I naturally use side on a lot of shots, sometimes to help the pot and I think there is nothing wrong with this approach which matters more perhaps at pro-level where they play on slippy thin cloths. This is a totally different playing environment to the one we all know at our local clubs on thicker cloths were the ball does not throw as much and therefore I do not think it matters as much as what some people seem to think.

Might be wrong just wondered what you guys thought

[gettingbetter]

I've always though that it was because they miss more shots using side. I've got a mate who plays with side on every single ball or there abouts, and his potting percentage is rather poor. You really do need to 'master' side, and if you don't if often looks foolish. I know Eddie Charlton was an advocate for mainly plain ball shots - I think there is a video on youtube where he makes a century without using side (coaching video).

Also, I think I know the answer to this already, but side does have an affect even if doesn't hit te cushions right?

[wildJONESEYE]

players stil use side but its not that neccesery with super fast cloths and the balls are so responsive on the cloth that playing with side would throw the ball off far more than it used to in the 80s and 90s on thicker cloths.

[stephenm2682]

yeah i always thought side as an effect even if it don't hit the cushion?

[bongo]

1lawyer, why do you think side helps the pot?

I only use side when necessary, even if it may deflect more with side on the TV professional cloths, it is a good habit to keep the game simple. If you don't need to use side, then why use it as it can easily go wrong.

"If you give it a chance to happen, then it normally will".

The above quote was said by Joe Johnson in yesterday's commentary on Eurosport for the World Series, I think it's a great saying. If you risk playing with side when you don't need to, then you are giving the chance of something going wrong, and most of the time it does. There are times when you need to use side for positional play, sometimes when playing around the black spot area. If you are playing with side then the pot can become so much for diffcult. Remember: "Never sacrifice the pot for position."

[gettingbetter]

I'm a firm believer of the last quote - ' don't sacrifice the pot for position.' Although, I think it is rather pointless to pot a black and not be on a red. Whenever using side, there is just that extra 10-20% that you will miss the pot, but you need to weigh that up with what rewards you will get with the potential break at your mercy. As a general rule for my style of play, I adopt that. With long pots, it will always be plain ball.

[bongo]

I think it is rather pointless to pot a black and not be on a red. Whenever using side, there is just that extra 10-20% that you will miss the pot, but you need to weigh that up with what rewards you will get with the potential break at your mercy.

I have highlighted the important things in your post, and I'd say that I agree with you. But I don't agree with you when you say it is pointless to pot a black and not be on a red. If you pot the black but arn't on a red, then you can just play a safety shot. If you get the 8 points, then play safe, then you are increasing your lead, this last point is more important in handicap snooker as if you pot red and black then the 8 points you get from that red (and black) is bigger as you already have a lead from the handicap. If you are playing from behind in handicap snooker because of you opponent's handicap then you need those points, so for you it's important to get as many points from reds and colours as possible. However, if you pot a red, and no colour, so you pot a red then play safe on a colour, then in theory that's 7 points you've lost. You could have potted the red you just potted later on and got a black with it, in a way it's like wasting a red.

Also, it's important to weigh up the opportunities you are giving your opponent if you miss because of the side you're playing making it more difficult. Is it a big risk for a big reward? Remember if you miss, it's a big reward for your opponent. Is it a small risk for big reward (which is great!)? Or an OK risk for OK reward?!

With most of the players on TV, they don't always mind taking a risk for a big reward as they could clear up if they get the chance. But you may have a big reward from a big risk, but are you going to be able to take advantage of your big reward?

Having said all that, if you pot red and black and leave yourself in a very difficult position trying to play a safety shot, then yes, it's pointless I believe, as the points you got your opponent can make up and make more from a good chance.

bongo

[1lawyer]

In response Bongo its hard to explain but some others may be able to, but say I was playing a cut along the rail and the angle was running away from the object ball then playing the shot with a trace of running side 'helps the pot' I try to keep these types of shots in the short to mid range shot selection of my game because as Wild and others have pointed out over distance the ball can deflect more.

I find it more natural to play certain shots with traces of side and yet a lot of 'text book' coaches say otherwise. I think otherwise so I just thought I would make my point that there is no set way for every player, especially on club tables.

I know also that I ain't going to be a pro or anything but I love the game and grew up in the Jimmy White, Higgins, Drago, Fagan era and I copied a lot of the shots they did for a laugh and enjoy playing more than the odd whack it in at 100 mph get right through the ball and ping off 4 cushions type of shots lol, but you can stick to rolling them in plain ball if you wish ...its all good.

[gettingbetter]

Nice reply bongo.

I think I probably should of expressed it otherwise. Its more the fact that you have to make the most of your opportunity when at the table, especially so when you are in the 'kill zone' - the black area. As you stated, the risk and reward situation. One of my practice drills that I like doing is setting the reds in different situation - have a cluster, spread a few here and there and have blue, pink and black on there spots and just play around with that and amass a break. And with what I have found, it is difficult tp amass a break plain ball.

That risk v reward is minute compared to playing with plain ball which could lead to a safety isn't worth it. I'm not at a skill level where I have total control of the cue ball, but I think for anyone, playing with side around the black area is inevitable.

I must say, your points are valid though. The potting the red, with no obvious colour is something that I should apply more often. I got for low percentage breakbuilding shots too often.

[bongo]

Thanks gettingbetter!

[RocketRoy1983]

I would certainly reccommend using plain ball as much as possible especially if you are not an experienced player. Even now I try to play plain ball as much as i possibly can to reduce the potential errors i can make.

[spike]

I play shots with side more than i should maybe - i feel confident doing so but because it can add more difficulty to the pot it's probably one reason why i miss more than i should.

[1lawyer]

I play shots with side more than i should maybe - i feel confident doing so but because it can add more difficulty to the pot it's probably one reason why i miss more than i should.

Naaaaaaaaa, Spike we ALL MISS MORE THAN WE SHOULD. you are never alone with that 1

Altering your natural game can throw you just as much if you are a player that uses side and knows how to use it. Jimmy White used lots of side did not stop him from being a top player and he only changed his game when the table conditions and cloth quickened.

I wonder what someone like Dell Hill would say to this thread.

[KeithinFrance]

At the moment, because of my leg problem, I try to use as little side as possible, and play as much plain ball as possible. My stance being very unstable has brought home to me just how difficult potting can be, and so I try to play as simply as possible. Sometimes, because of bad positional play, I have to use side to help me gain position on the next ball, but it is very unpredictable, because there are so many factors that can interfere with what should be simple, and it just distracts us from the primary goal, the pot. I think Roy's advice is very good, try and use plain ball as much as possible, and concentrate on potting and simple positional play.
Snooker is hard enough as it is, why make it more complicated than you need to?