Feathering

[checkSide]

so Mr CheckSide ... I guess you approve of me getting all the common cut-angles tattoed on my bridge arm then? I personally think it's pure genius and scares the **** out of my opponents ...

for instance, if I want the object ball to go 30 degrees off the line of aim and the cue ball to go 34 degrees the other way, I just stare at my bridge arm for a while and say "that's a half ball pot! easy peasy" ...

I'm not sure what I'll do when I make the pro tour ... I've heard they have to play in long sleeved shirts ... bummer

You could just try memorising them, conciously as poolq suggests, or subconciously as Terry suggests.

That's what the rest of us do!

Either way, unless you start to remember and recognise your angles, you'll never pot balls consistently.

Cheers.

[Terry Davidson]

DandyA:

Don't take one professional (Mark Selby) who has a little quirk in his technique and use him as an example that all the pros do micro-adjustments. If you really watch Mark, you will see he always starts and ends that to-and-fro motion in the exact same spot he got down on.

I don't think very many professionals do the 'micro-adjustment' as a lot of us amateurs do (myself included, although I'm trying to stop). One theory is your first estimate (or 'guess') on the line of aim is most likely to be the most accurate as you haven't brought your concious mind to bear, which is what you're doing with the micro adjustments.

If you want to try and use the pros technique to find out which is best then pick the 4 to 7 traits they all have in common. For instance, if you choose Mark Allen as your example, then you could say he doesn't have a discernible rear pause so therefore the rear pause must be rubbish and not required, however every other pro except Peter Ebdon has a discernible rear pause and the 4 best players over the past 20 years, Steve Davis, Spephen Hendry, Ronnie O'Sullivan and John Higgins all have the rear pause.

If you try and 'cherry pick' the pros techniques you could end up moving during feathering (Mark Selby), no rear pause (Mark Allen), holding the cue behind the end (Peter Ebdon), standing up quickly once you hit the cueball (Alan MacManus), etc, etc.

Look at the pros and see what they all do in common and use that to help your technique

Terry

[bob1]

A student of Nic Barrow, a great resource for this Forum. He knows what he is talking
about. And I would think he would be a great coach.

[poolqjunkie]

Or may be you can just pick Alex Higgins.

[Terry Davidson]

Bob1:

Thanks for the kind words. Not only am I a student of Nic's but I'm also his coach for TheSnookerGym coaching Forum and fill in for him when he can't get the time to take care of all the questions. There is a ton of info in the TSG Forum on everything to do with technique from both Nic and myself.

I coached a bit in Britain when I was over there in the 80's and had my B&SCC coaching qualification but I figured I needed to upgrade plus it looks like I'm coming back to Britain in January to get my Examiner's license plus I'd like to get a Senior Coaching certificate from Terry/Wayne Griffiths at Matchroom and maybe try and work Del Hill in there too, just to get all the differing philosophies. I'd do the WSA one in Sheffield but I hear they've stopped doing it.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

poolqjunkie:

Now there's a good example on a technique it would be impossible to teach to a student. Alex was a natural one-off when it came to technique and I don't think his style will ever be copied to a point where someone will play as well as he did with the unusual grip, all that movement and unusual shot selections.

But he sure made one hell of a lot of balls!

Terry

[DandyA]

poolqjunkie:

Now there's a good example on a technique it would be impossible to teach to a student. Alex was a natural one-off when it came to technique and I don't think his style will ever be copied to a point where someone will play as well as he did with the unusual grip, all that movement and unusual shot selections.

But he sure made one hell of a lot of balls!

Terry

yep very true ...

[DandyA]

good points made by all, I'm enjoying this thread and everyone's contributions - it's certainly helping me to understand me more what I'm actually doing when I'm at the table ...

I think we are slightly talking at cross-purposes ... you lot seem confident you've got the line of aim 100% correct so when you miss shots, it presumably must be because you did not deliver the cue correctly ...

Whilst I'm not claiming to be Murphy-like gun barrel straight, I feel I miss most of the shots I miss because my line of aim was wrong rather than I delivered the cue badly ... it's the same result, both you and me missed!

Take a case in point tonight ... the landlord (a good player) challenged me to a few frames of pool tonight ... in one of the frames, my ball was over a corner pocket with the black 1mm off the opposite side cushion a long way from the pocket ... first shot was good, potted the colour bringing the white absolutely dead straight down the cushion with the black ...

Dead straight but difficult pot (the jaws on the local pub table are not friendly) ... it goes but it needs to be very precise ... so the BOB is completely obvious, no offset to worry about cos it is dead straight ... but I feathered maybe 8 times instead of my usual 4 to make absolutely sure I was pointing the cue in the right direction down my chosen line of aim and indeed did some micro-adjustments ...

And I got it ... very convincingly actually ... perfect weight and line ...which is why I'm confused - as I understand most posters on this thread are just saying "chose your line standing up, then get down and just hit it" ...

That might be OK if you are naturally gifted but since I am not, I have to work hard to give every pot my best attention ...

That's not to say I disagree with "subconscious" arguments at all ... indeed I totally agree ... wherever possible,let your subconscious do the work ... occasionally I get "in the zone" - I can't miss a pot and I can't fail to get great position on the next ball ... but, unfortunately, it's not often ...

So I say "lucky you" to those who can ...

[Terry Davidson]

DandyA:

I'll just add this plus give you a challenge to try if you can.

It's been my experience both as a player and a coach that the vast majority of pots are missed because of a flaw in the mechanics causes the cue to be delivered off line. It's also been my experience that all players, with a little experience, are able to determine the correct line of aim (BOB) and in general are able to determine where to aim the cue, although this takes a bit more experience.

I dunno, maybe you are a one-off on having difficulty automatically (unconciously) determining the correct line of aim of the cue through proper feedback.

Here's the challenge...if you can get a digital video camera and a tripod, take it down to the club and set up the following shot. Place an object ball 1ft from the middle pocket level with the blue spot, place the cueball 18in or so from the other middle pocket level with the blue so the shot is straight in. Set the cueball so you have a comfortable hand on the table shot.

Now set the camera up to be at the exact same height as the butt of your cue when it's in the address position so the camera is looking right into the SD socket. Turn the camera on to record and take the shot, hard enough to screw the white back to the pocket underneath your chest. Repeat the shot 10 times.

If, as you say, you deliver the cue straight 90% of the time then using any video software (like Windows Media) watch the shot on your computer IN SLOW MOTION and place the end of a pen (not too sharp though) on the screen where the SD socket is in the address position.

On the backswing the socket may rise about one inch at the end and on the delivery it might also rise (or even fall a bit in some cases), BUT IF IT MOVES SIDEWAYS AT ALL IN EITHER THE BACKSWING OR DELIVERY then that means you are NOT delivering that cue as straight as you think you do.

I suspect you will get a surprise to see what's actually happening to the cue. My own assessment is if you are only at the 25-break class then you are DEFINITELY NOT delivering that cue straight and this slow-motion video will show you some glaring issues which you should sort out and once you do you will see your high break rising, and quickly.

When I got my digital camera (for coaching) I was absolutely amazed I could even pot a ball with what I saw for myself. The butt of my cue was coming back to the left and going through to the right even more because the delivery is a lot more dynamic than the backswing. My head was coming a bit up on the backswing and there was shoulder movement on the delivery to compensate for the crooked backswing. When you consider I have a lot of centuries in match play, including 3 x 147's, then it's a wonder I was able to do that with all the movement. (I might not have had that in the late 80's though, but I sure as hell had it when I came back in 2005).

In addition, when I record my students, some of whom are regular century makers, and I have a software program where I can analyse technique on a frame-by-frame basis, they are amazed at what's really happening and how they are compensating for some flaw or other. You also see some things it's absolutely impossible to either feel or see just by watching a player. I also use this software program to analyse the pros, especially when they miss a pot they should have got.

One hint...most technique problems originate during the backswing (believe it or not) so watch that carefully if you are able to do this.

Terry

[DandyA]

DandyA:

I'll just add this plus give you a challenge to try if you can.

It's been my experience both as a player and a coach that the vast majority of pots are missed because of a flaw in the mechanics causes the cue to be delivered off line. It's also been my experience that all players, with a little experience, are able to determine the correct line of aim (BOB) and in general are able to determine where to aim the cue, although this takes a bit more experience.

I dunno, maybe you are a one-off on having difficulty automatically (unconciously) determining the correct line of aim of the cue through proper feedback.

Here's the challenge...if you can get a digital video camera and a tripod, take it down to the club and set up the following shot. Place an object ball 1ft from the middle pocket level with the blue spot, place the cueball 18in or so from the other middle pocket level with the blue so the shot is straight in. Set the cueball so you have a comfortable hand on the table shot.

Now set the camera up to be at the exact same height as the butt of your cue when it's in the address position so the camera is looking right into the SD socket. Turn the camera on to record and take the shot, hard enough to screw the white back to the pocket underneath your chest. Repeat the shot 10 times.

If, as you say, you deliver the cue straight 90% of the time then using any video software (like Windows Media) watch the shot on your computer IN SLOW MOTION and place the end of a pen (not too sharp though) on the screen where the SD socket is in the address position.

On the backswing the socket may rise about one inch at the end and on the delivery it might also rise (or even fall a bit in some cases), BUT IF IT MOVES SIDEWAYS AT ALL IN EITHER THE BACKSWING OR DELIVERY then that means you are NOT delivering that cue as straight as you think you do.

I suspect you will get a surprise to see what's actually happening to the cue. My own assessment is if you are only at the 25-break class then you are DEFINITELY NOT delivering that cue straight and this slow-motion video will show you some glaring issues which you should sort out and once you do you will see your high break rising, and quickly.

When I got my digital camera (for coaching) I was absolutely amazed I could even pot a ball with what I saw for myself. The butt of my cue was coming back to the left and going through to the right even more because the delivery is a lot more dynamic than the backswing. My head was coming a bit up on the backswing and there was shoulder movement on the delivery to compensate for the crooked backswing. When you consider I have a lot of centuries in match play, including 3 x 147's, then it's a wonder I was able to do that with all the movement. (I might not have had that in the late 80's though, but I sure as hell had it when I came back in 2005).

In addition, when I record my students, some of whom are regular century makers, and I have a software program where I can analyse technique on a frame-by-frame basis, they are amazed at what's really happening and how they are compensating for some flaw or other. You also see some things it's absolutely impossible to either feel or see just by watching a player. I also use this software program to analyse the pros, especially when they miss a pot they should have got.

One hint...most technique problems originate during the backswing (believe it or not) so watch that carefully if you are able to do this.

Terry

Terry, I'm sorry and I'm enjoying your postings but now you are just being plain silly ...

You are asking me to put the white ball 18" from the cushion and the object ball say 2ft away and then deep screw the white back to the cushion and you are telling me that I won't have cued it very well and there will be some vertical movement and possibly some horizontal movement of my cue ...

With due respect to you, I really don't need a coach to tell me that! I'm having to set my cue tip low on the cue ball and raise the butt of my cue simply to raise it over the cushion ... I'm pointing my cue maybe 15 to 20 degrees downwards and there is absolutely no way I can hit that perfectly straight ... even if I did, I'd probably get some unwanted side on the cue ball ...

Now although I know it is a challenge you've set me (which I admit I can't do and wouldn't even bother trying) because I've got far too much vertical angle on my cue ... I personally find a lot of shots could be achieved with either low-hitting (stun/screw) or just as well with high-hitting (top spin) ... I personally would always choose the latter if it's viable for the simple reason my cue is more parallel to the table ... so easier to sight and less chance of imparting unwanted side ...

Good luck to you mate in your coaching career but I hope you won't tell people to rack up the butt of their cues and then tell them how crap they are ... absolutely everyone is crap doing that - except possibly John Parrott who is noted for his exceptional skill cueing down on the ball - oh and I also remember seeing Joe Swail doing a grande massee a few years ago over an entire pack of balls ... he got it, top shot ... but I'm sure he'd admit there was an element of luck ...

[DandyA]

Now set the camera up to be at the exact same height as the butt of your cue when it's in the address position so the camera is looking right into the SD socket. Turn the camera on to record and take the shot, hard enough to screw the white back to the pocket underneath your chest.

oh and BTW, I think I have another teensy-weensy problem with your advice ... I don't think I have an SD socket! Is that a conventional screw fitting?

I've got a Welsh Dragon which I bought nearly a year ago from www.WelshPoolTrading.co.uk ... but it's fitted with female airlock joints on both shaft and butt so I can extend it for those long shots on a snooker table or shorten it for pool on hampered tables ... oh, and it goes "phut" as you separate the two parts ...

Apart from being terribly cool, I do actually feel what appear to be silly little things like this can make a difference ...

Mike Wooldridge at www.HandMadeCues.com seems to agree ... I think all his cues now come with his own design of airlock connectors ...

Xmas is coming ... go on, treat yourself ... www.WelshPoolTrading.co.uk for entry level UK handmade cues or www.HandMadeCues.com for the best money can buy ...

[Terry Davidson]

DandyA:

Hmmm...maybe I explained that wrong as it's a set shot which I was asked to video for Terry/Wayne Griffiths when they were doing video analysis trials plus I guess my maths must be crap.

Set object ball 1ft from the middle bag and cueball 1.5ft from opposite middle bag, meaning there's 3.5ft between the balls (or move the cueball more towards the blue spot until it's a comfortable hand-on-the-table shot). Cue is almost parallel to the bed of the table as there's one chalk height or less space between the middle pocket leather and the cue (maybe you cue up with your cue higher than that?)

Anyway, I'll simplify it a bit. Blue on spot, cueball on green side of table (if you're right handed) and 18in behind blue ball in a dead-in pot to the top (black) pocket. If you are 6ft in height or less and use a 57in cue then in the address position your grip should be just over the green pocket leather (one chalk height or less) but the cue is virtually level to the bed of the table, only raised maybe 10 degrees or so (didn't measure it).

Camera right behind and level with SD socket, hit blue with sufficient power to screw cueball back to green pocket. It's about a medium-paced shot but will show you what's happening to the butt of the cue during a shot.

Most players have some vertical movement on both backswing and delivery but really good players have no horizontal movement in the butt of the cue, which is bad news if you want a straight cue delivery like you say you have 90% of the time.

Try it, or even if you can't get a camera, try it and leave your cue extended at the end of the shot and see if the cue is lined up dead-on to the edge of the leather of the top pocket (inside top cushion jaw) if that's where you aimed initially. If you are cueing straight the cue should be aiming right at the pocket at the very end of your delivery.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

Now that's a good one! Mike sells his cues with SD sockets and sells cue extensions for his cues, but I have to admit he does have his own 'air-lock' joint as do O'mins, Acuerate and a host of other cue types.

So forget the reference to 'SD socket' and just think 'end of the butt' in its place and you get the same picture.

But please explain one thing to me...with your cue, how do you get it to extend out to 8ft or so with no extension in the butt.

Oh, and another question...how do the two female sockets fit together? That might be the first lesbian cue I've ever heard of as I've only seen airlock joints with a male pin and female socket that go 'phut' when you take them apart.

Terry

[DandyA]

DandyA:

Hmmm...maybe I explained that wrong as it's a set shot which I was asked to video for Terry/Wayne Griffiths when they were doing video analysis trials plus I guess my maths must be crap.

Set object ball 1ft from the middle bag and cueball 1.5ft from opposite middle bag, meaning there's 3.5ft between the balls (or move the cueball more towards the blue spot until it's a comfortable hand-on-the-table shot). Cue is almost parallel to the bed of the table as there's one chalk height or less space between the middle pocket leather and the cue (maybe you cue up with your cue higher than that?)

Anyway, I'll simplify it a bit. Blue on spot, cueball on green side of table (if you're right handed) and 18in behind blue ball in a dead-in pot to the top (black) pocket. If you are 6ft in height or less and use a 57in cue then in the address position your grip should be just over the green pocket leather (one chalk height or less) but the cue is virtually level to the bed of the table, only raised maybe 10 degrees or so (didn't measure it).

Camera right behind and level with SD socket, hit blue with sufficient power to screw cueball back to green pocket. It's about a medium-paced shot but will show you what's happening to the butt of the cue during a shot.

Most players have some vertical movement on both backswing and delivery but really good players have no horizontal movement in the butt of the cue, which is bad news if you want a straight cue delivery like you say you have 90% of the time.

Try it, or even if you can't get a camera, try it and leave your cue extended at the end of the shot and see if the cue is lined up dead-on to the edge of the leather of the top pocket (inside top cushion jaw) if that's where you aimed initially. If you are cueing straight the cue should be aiming right at the pocket at the very end of your delivery.

Terry

now we are talking Terry! this is a good shot to practice even just plain ball let alone trying to screw back ...

obviously he didn't invent it but I remember Steve Davis mentioning it in his coaching videos ... and what he said was this is the ultimate straight cueing test ... if you can get this 9 times out of 10 you will be a World Champion, I (ie Steve) said I can get this maybe 7 out of 10 and I'm 6 times World Champion ...

that's hitting plain ball by the way ... I don't know what Steve would reckon his chances are deep screw (much less obviously) and I don't know why you are advising me to deep screw (I personally avoid it if at all possible) ...

oh, and I'm not going to reread exactly what I said but what I think I said and should have said is I feel I deliver the cue fairly straight nine times out of ten ... that doesn't mean I pot 9 times out of 10, it doesn't mean I have actually delivered the cue perfectly straight (both horizontally and vertically) 9 times out of 10 ... it means what it says ... I *feel* I have ...

going back to your challenge ... blue on spot, white 18" or so in a direct line with a black corner pocket ... well that's a sighting issue in my opinion ... if it is really dead straight and I'm confident of that, then I would expect to hit that every time unless the blue jumped off it's spot (I play on club tables with divots for spots) ... what I'd be worrying about is "is it dead straight" because it may well not be but then we're getting back into the can of worms known as sighting and line of aim ...

Here's my MK III test ... say white on the baulk line, put the blue in a direct line with a black corner pocket at any distance you like (up to you 12" ro 18" sounds good) ... hit the little darling into the pocket ... try 10 times ... well done, you got 7 out of 10, that's good ...

now make it harder ... white in exactly the same place but now the object ball 2ft away still in a direct line as you've set it ... much, much harder and then 3ft away and then 4ft away ... 3 out of 10 would be good ...

feel free to adjust the distance between cue and object ball to see how you do and to learn more about sighting and cue delivery ... possibly try top/stun/screw if you're feeling adventurous (although I personally don't recommend it - plain ball rules!) ... it's only a game after all - it's hardly a matter of life and death if you miss the little darling and hopefully you'll enjoy it ...

look at Joe Swail ... lovely chap, practically deaf, clearly not coached by Terry Davidson or Nic Barrow but an absolute delight to watch ... it's a game, enjoy it

[poolqjunkie]

Oh, and another question...how do the two female sockets fit together? That might be the first lesbian cue I've ever heard of as I've only seen airlock joints with a male pin and female socket that go 'phut' when you take them apart.

Terry

LOL.
Terry, this is one of the funnest response I have read in a very long time. Thanks for the laugh.
That is a good one!