Feathering

[poolqjunkie]

You know, I was one of those players who cannot see the angles no matter what. I just could not see it--until a friend of mine told me to just pot the black off the spot and repeat the exercise until I can see the angles.

When I was using ghost ball or off set or whatever, every shot was a trial and error adventure with no certainty at all. I thought I was shooting straight and that it was only my aim when I missed, but I was not shooting straight most of the times.

So, I set out to practice just potting the blue off the spot and to pot the black from all angles for may be about 4 months. I would pot about 15 balls with each angle, and that usually took me about 2 hours or so.

It was very boring, and I looked like a retard doing the same thing over and over again.

With the blue ball exercise, I could not even make one and that was how bad my stroke actually was.

After doing this exercises for about 4 months or so everyday, I started to be able to make breaks of 30's, then 40's and I still remember I had my first 64 break soon after that. I think in about 9 months, I had a 82 or something like that. I have had some 100's in practice and one in a match so far.

Sometimes, I can clear the line up but most of the time I would miss or mess up my position with the last few reds. But this is a big improvement for someone like me who would struggled to make a 30 break before.

These all happened because I was able to see the angles with more certainty than before, and I was able to cue a bit straighter than what i used to--although I still misjudge them and sometimes cannot see them from time to time--but the point is I can see the angles with a lot more certainty and more balls are going into the pockets.

What I am trying to say is that this did not come naturally to me, it was a lot of repeating the same shot until I can memorize them. I guess perhaps I am one of those untalented players. I always wonder how some players can see the angles so well once they pick up a cue, it never happened to me.

I used to feel almost the same as how Dandy feel, that I had a straight stroke but I just did not know how to aim. Now, I know I did not shoot that straight, and yes, I did not know how to aim at all.

I guess Terry is probably a pretty decent player and perhaps he is one of those gifted with being able to see the angles. I happen to be one of those who is not gifted with this ability at all, and it was a hugh struggle trying to find the aiming point. Good news is if I can aim much better through practice, then everyone should be able to. That is how bad I was.

[poolqjunkie]

now we are talking Terry! this is a good shot to practice even just plain ball let alone trying to screw back ...

obviously he didn't invent it but I remember Steve Davis mentioning it in his coaching videos ... and what he said was this is the ultimate straight cueing test ... if you can get this 9 times out of 10 you will be a World Champion, I (ie Steve) said I can get this maybe 7 out of 10 and I'm 6 times World Champion ...

that's hitting plain ball by the way ... I don't know what Steve would reckon his chances are deep screw (much less obviously) and I don't know why you are advising me to deep screw (I personally avoid it if at all possible) ...

oh, and I'm not going to reread exactly what I said but what I think I said and should have said is I feel I deliver the cue fairly straight nine times out of ten ... that doesn't mean I pot 9 times out of 10, it doesn't mean I have actually delivered the cue perfectly straight (both horizontally and vertically) 9 times out of 10 ... it means what it says ... I *feel* I have ...

going back to your challenge ... blue on spot, white 18" or so in a direct line with a black corner pocket ... well that's a sighting issue in my opinion ... if it is really dead straight and I'm confident of that, then I would expect to hit that every time unless the blue jumped off it's spot (I play on club tables with divots for spots) ... what I'd be worrying about is "is it dead straight" because it may well not be but then we're getting back into the can of worms known as sighting and line of aim ...

Here's my MK III test ... say white on the baulk line, put the blue in a direct line with a black corner pocket at any distance you like (up to you 12" ro 18" sounds good) ... hit the little darling into the pocket ... try 10 times ... well done, you got 7 out of 10, that's good ...

now make it harder ... white in exactly the same place but now the object ball 2ft away still in a direct line as you've set it ... much, much harder and then 3ft away and then 4ft away ... 3 out of 10 would be good ...

feel free to adjust the distance between cue and object ball to see how you do and to learn more about sighting and cue delivery ... possibly try top/stun/screw if you're feeling adventurous (although I personally don't recommend it - plain ball rules!) ... it's only a game after all - it's hardly a matter of life and death if you miss the little darling and hopefully you'll enjoy it ...

look at Joe Swail ... lovely chap, practically deaf, clearly not coached by Terry Davidson or Nic Barrow but an absolute delight to watch ... it's a game, enjoy it

Dandy,
The shot Terry suggested is not that difficult, as the balls are quite close to each other. Also, you do not really need to hit very low on the ball to get it to come back.
If you have some sighting problem you can just aim at the pocket, never mind the ball.
The pocket is bigger than a ball so even if it is not 100% dead straight you still can make it or come close to making it.
Because the cue ball is heavy and when you play screw you will feel more weight on the tip of your cue, it is more demanding on your cueing action than a plain ball.
With the balls only 18 inches or so apart I do not think Steve Davis would have too much trouble whether it is plain ball or screw.
You cannot just cue straight when you play plain ball, you need to be able to shoot straight with screw and tops and at various speeds.
I suggest if you are really interested in learning, that you keep an open mind and try to read, understand, and practice what others are suggesting.
This seems to be totally drifting off topic anyway I think I will bow out of the discussion.
Thanks Terry for the wonderful advice.
Good luck to you, Dandy.

[DandyA]

Now that's a good one! Mike sells his cues with SD sockets and sells cue extensions for his cues, but I have to admit he does have his own 'air-lock' joint as do O'mins, Acuerate and a host of other cue types.

So forget the reference to 'SD socket' and just think 'end of the butt' in its place and you get the same picture.

But please explain one thing to me...with your cue, how do you get it to extend out to 8ft or so with no extension in the butt.

Oh, and another question...how do the two female sockets fit together? That might be the first lesbian cue I've ever heard of as I've only seen airlock joints with a male pin and female socket that go 'phut' when you take them apart.

Terry

Terry, with due respect ... please read my post which I have re-read just to make sure I didn't do a typo or have a brain failure (as I sometimes do) but my post seems pretty accurate ...

So here we go ... the facts of life according to DandyA ... I stated in my post both my shaft and butt were fitted with female airlock connectors ... by this I mean the thin pointy bit approx 4ft long (the one with a bit of cow at it's sharp end) has a female connector at the other end ...

OK so far ... good ... the approx 16" butt has a female connector at it's further end and, of course, a male connector at the other end so it can fit onto the shaft ...

My telescopic mini-butt has a male connector at one end and no connector at the other ... now I have to admit this is where it gets confusing especially if I'm concentrating on trying to work out what offset I should allow for the line of aim ... but I'll give it a go ...

I've got three bits ... the long spindly one with a bit of cow stuck to it, since it is female, can fit either the butt type thingy or the telescopic mini-butt thingy ...

The butt type thingy can either fit the long spindly bit using it's male connector or indeed it can also fit the telescopic mini-butt thingy using it's female connector ...

Are you still with this? Whilst I have no objections to lesbian or gay communities, we're still very definitely talking heterosexual here ...

Now here it gets tricky ... cos the telescopic mini-butt thingy could fit either the long spindly bit or the butt-type thingy or indeed it could fit the butt-type thingy when it's fitted to the spindly type thingy ..

Of course, I too found it very hard to believe too that this works but fortunately every cue you buy from www.WelshPoolTrading.co.uk comes with a 200 page manual, a DVD plus a week's residential course to show how to connect these things together ...

Just wish I'd bought the next model up in the range ... which came with manuals and DVD's promising to show how to cue as well as Ronnie ...

[DandyA]

anyway I think I will bow out of the discussion.

oh please don't go PQ ... we're only rabitting (even if me and Terry seem at loggerheads) and I welcome your input just as much as I welcome Terry's ...

there's some good stuff IMHO on this thread from all of us but especially from you and Terry ...

[Terry Davidson]

OK, now I understand. You have the same joint at the end of the butt as you have for the 3/4 joint and can attach your extensions directly to your shaft if you wanted to for a shorter and likely lighter cue.

So in fact, there is a female socket in the end of your butt it's just not the standard SD socket which is just a generic term and can refer to any type of socket by the way. Someone has put some thought into the joints on your cue, whereas all the ones I've seen have either a different type socket and thread or else we also have a guy here who puts the mini-extension right into the end of the butt, doesn't change the weight or balance of the cue and all you do is turn the last inch of the butt to unlock it and slide it out. However, the owners of those cues have to use a slip-on extension for the longer half-butt shots.

If I bought the cue would they pay for the flight over to attend the residential training course?

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

poolqjunkie and DandyA:

I have the Steve Davis coaching video here and watched it a few times when I was trying to get my game back together.

The shot Steve used was object ball on blue spot, cueball on baulkline so youhave a straight-in blue to either top pocket. Hit the cueball at medium pace and above centre and the object of the exercise is to pot BOTH balls into the same pocket. His comment at the time was 'if you can do this successfully 10 times in a row then you have a better cue action than I do'.

DandyA:

This is one REALLY difficult shot to play successfully and you need to have a perfectly straight cue action in order to do it. After many, many tries over a period of months plus some work on correcting my tendency to cue to the left on delivery (pushing cueball to right and over-cutting the ball slightly) I finally did manage to get 10 in a row successfully although I haven't tried this recently as it wore a line in my cloth from the baulkline to the blue spot and then from blue spot to top pocket, plus you get a little depression at the blue spot which encourages 'kicks' and I used to get REALLY cranky if I had made 6 or 7 in a row and then got a kick.

My record for this exercise by the way is 17 in a row so after that I figured I had the straight delivery down pat and quit doing it but I didn't give it enough time and that cueing to the left a bit snuck back in to my technique.

The other exercise Steve practices is to line all 21 object balls across the blue spot and with cueball in hand each time at the baulkline, try and pot all 21 in a row using any power you like. In Frank Callan's book it says Steve got to 19 and then lost his bottle and missed number 20 and I don't know if he's ever done all 21 since then. I tried this one too and when you get to the balls closer to the side cushion and are shooting to a closed pocket IT'S REALLY TOUGH. My best at this one is a dismal 14.

Terry

[checkSide]

Hi Terry.

What would you say is the number one piece of feedback you receive to indicate that you have cued a shot straight??

Cheers.

[Terry Davidson]

Checkside:

When I'm doing practice routines (like my 'eye-closed' drill) it's that I potted the ball centre-pocket. The second is when I leave my cue extended I check the line of aim of the cue to see that it's straight down the aiming line.

In a match it's generally if I hit the object ball exactly as I intended, whether it's a pot or a safety shot, but accounting for any roll-off of the table.

That's the straight delivery pary and then there's the positional side of things (or in other words did I hit the cueball at the right power and height?) and that is 'did I get the position I intended? - If not, why not? It could be I raised or lowered the butt of the cue at the moment of impact and hit the cueball at the wrong height, but these are usually minor errors and the most important one is if I delivered the cue straight and hit the object ball exactly as intended

Terry

[checkSide]

Terry. Do you use any "feel" as feedback to determine if you cued straight.

i.e. The feel of the cue hitting an exact point on your chest. The feel of your wrist coming through the shot etc.???

[poolqjunkie]

Terry,
I just want to say that I have tried to put my arm pit as close to the table as possible yesterday as you adviced when I practiced, and it was working very well for me, thank you.
I practiced for about 5 hours, and the last couple hours was starting to feel really good. It allows me to stay down, to really focus my eye sight on my object ball before I deliver my cue, and it feels much more solid and consistent. I also feel that my arm angle is more consistent so it helps me to know that my cue is always int he same groove. I was having problem with my power top and stun follow before but I am doing much better with the bracing of my bridge arm. I am much more consistent in doing that exercise of potting the cue ball and object ball into the pocket together now. My stroking arm also feels much more loose and smooth. I think I am staying down may be one second or a bit more than before on average. I really like how that feel.
Thank you very much for your advice.

[Terry Davidson]

Checkside:

In the 'closed eye' drill, sensing what my right wrist and forearm have done is the first point of feedback along with ensuring no movement in the head/shoulder. On this drill the second feedback point is when I open my eyes I look down the line of the cue to see if it's right on the line of aim as I have a faint line worn in my table from yellow to blue spot and as I aim with my left eye I ensure I can't see that line out of my left eye as the cue should be covering it. I also do a quick check on the amount of cue out past the baulk line just to confirm I am still following through my standard 6-7in or on a deep screw 9-10in (I am an elbow-dropper on power shots, especially deep screws).

I also try and do the sensing thing when I try the same shot from the yellow spot with my eyes open and also the straight in off the blue spot from baulk line where you are trying to pot both balls in the same top pocket. I also try this same shot with deep screw and attempt to screw the white back to the yellow or green pocket, although I get a little inaccurate on the very high power shots due to involuntary body movement (Neil Robertson I ain't!)

However, during a match I try and concentrate on making the pot and hitting the cueball where I've planned to for position and try and divorce any thoughts of technique or feedback from my mind (although it's hard sometimes as I've been working on my technique now for over a year), which I think is what a player should be doing in a match or even a practice frame with another player. I always try to practice seriously and only once in a while have a few frames where we just go for everything (that's when I make my most centuries and big breaks and it turns into real fun when you slam a 10ft shot into a baulk pocket and screw back for a blue or pink).

As I am in the country and there are no decent clubs anywhere near me I am usually practicing by myself and solo practice is good but too much of it can make a player worry about his technique a bit too much, so that's why I have a few frames a day where I go for everything

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

poolqjunkie:

I'm glad my advice was a help and I can only encourage you to stick with it and give it a good test. Joe Davis advocated 'bracing' the right shoulder but modern theory is that introduces tension in the upper arm whereas just getting that left armpit down as far as you comfortable can tends to raise and lock the right shoulder socket without introducing any tension and leaving the player still comfortable on the shot.

I have also found my right arm seems to swing a lot more freely and fluidly (is that a word?) and I play much better plus it also promotes staying still and down on the shot.

One little additional point is I try and bring my left shoulder over towards my head a bit (without pushing it and causing tension) and this seems to improve on that fluid feeling. However, don't make the mistake of bringing the head over to the shoulder as that will only throw off your natural sighting position.

(And by the way, what are you doing practicing for 5 hours when you could be working like the devil on my order?)

Terry

[checkSide]

Checkside:

In the 'closed eye' drill, sensing what my right wrist and forearm have done is the first point of feedback along with ensuring no movement in the head/shoulder. On this drill the second feedback point is when I open my eyes I look down the line of the cue to see if it's right on the line of aim as I have a faint line worn in my table from yellow to blue spot and as I aim with my left eye I ensure I can't see that line out of my left eye as the cue should be covering it. I also do a quick check on the amount of cue out past the baulk line just to confirm I am still following through my standard 6-7in or on a deep screw 9-10in (I am an elbow-dropper on power shots, especially deep screws).

I also try and do the sensing thing when I try the same shot from the yellow spot with my eyes open and also the straight in off the blue spot from baulk line where you are trying to pot both balls in the same top pocket. I also try this same shot with deep screw and attempt to screw the white back to the yellow or green pocket, although I get a little inaccurate on the very high power shots due to involuntary body movement (Neil Robertson I ain't!)

However, during a match I try and concentrate on making the pot and hitting the cueball where I've planned to for position and try and divorce any thoughts of technique or feedback from my mind (although it's hard sometimes as I've been working on my technique now for over a year), which I think is what a player should be doing in a match or even a practice frame with another player. I always try to practice seriously and only once in a while have a few frames where we just go for everything (that's when I make my most centuries and big breaks and it turns into real fun when you slam a 10ft shot into a baulk pocket and screw back for a blue or pink).

As I am in the country and there are no decent clubs anywhere near me I am usually practicing by myself and solo practice is good but too much of it can make a player worry about his technique a bit too much, so that's why I have a few frames a day where I go for everything

Terry

Thanks for taking the time to reply Terry.

What I have been trying to do lately is discover an "anchor" as I describe it, to aid straight cueing.

When I have been practicing my long straight blues, I have been trying to remember the "feeling" of the perfect shots. How my grip feels, my arm, my chest when the cue stops etc. Something I can focus on when playing EVERY SHOT, that will hopefully help me cue straight consistently.

I'm not sure whether this method is worth persuing, as I have had mixed success so far. I was just wondering if the good players have a similar method, i.e. they know what a straight shot feels like before they shoot, or if they just rely on their instinct to cue straight every time.

Cheers.

[Terry Davidson]

I'm not sure if your 'anchor' is the same as Nic's 'parking your brain', or Del Hill's 'dummy' or my 'getting into the zone' or not but here's what I do to try and capture what I shall call that 'fluid' (sm-o-o-o-th) feeling in my right forearm and wrist. It may seem odd at first, but give it a try and see if it helps.

When I get down into the address position I try and get my left armpit down as close to the table as I can (which has the effect of locking up the right shoulder socket) and I also try and bring my left shoulder over as close to my chin as I can without straining (don't make the mistake of bringing the head to the shoulder).

Then for my 'dummy' or in golf where it's called a 'swing thought' and is defined as just one thought on the technique dynamics, I think 'chin on f%#&*$g cue!!!' as I have had a problem with lifting my head/shoulder and thus chin on the backswing for the past 3 years ever since I returned to snooker.

These 3 things have really helped me and I'm noticing since getting them all into my cue action (and brain) that the centuries are starting to flow again after a 3-year absence (it doesn't pay to give the game up for 10 years!). Of course, there wa also a lot of help from Nic Barrow, Terry & Wayne Griffiths and even Steve Davis a bit along the way, and I can't forget getting my digital video camera and tripod was one of the best moves I ever made for analysis and corrections.

Terry

[poolqjunkie]

poolqjunkie:

(And by the way, what are you doing practicing for 5 hours when you could be working like the devil on my order?)

Terry

Sorry.

I actually practice a few hours a day about 6 days a week.

You cue is being built, don't worry.