Why bottom?

[nutscrewsandbolts]

I refer to the first practice escape in this link : http://www.snookergames.co.uk/practise3.html

I've tried it a few times and have had 50% success.

The instructions say, "Play this stroke with plenty of bottom and right-hand side and aim as shown."

I just want to know that since no other balls are involved and its just four cushions, why does it say to use plenty of bottom?

Thanks.

[RocketRoy1983]

By applying bottom in this instance more angle can be created off the first side cushion. However, if I was to play this shot id be inclined to play a bit higher on the cueball. The problem can be however that once the cueball hits the 3rd cushion (Right hand side cushion as we look) it can bounce off in a very dull fashion or straighten up but trial and error is the key here.

[nutscrewsandbolts]

By applying bottom in this instance more angle can be created off the first side cushion.

Thanks for your prompt reply... I'm a bit lost now. Shouldn't more angle be created if i apply the maximum possible side instead of applying partial bottom thus reducing the amount of side?

[RocketRoy1983]

Well yes the more right hand side you apply to the cueball the more reaction you will naturally get but by applying bottom it just widens the angle the cue ball takes a little bit more.

[nutscrewsandbolts]

Ok... I guess I'll have to try that out and get back to you. Thanks.

[RocketRoy1983]

Yes as ever feel free to PM me anytime or just bump this thread up with your results/findings.

[DandyA]

I refer to the first practice escape in this link : http://www.snookergames.co.uk/practise3.html

I've tried it a few times and have had 50% success.

The instructions say, "Play this stroke with plenty of bottom and right-hand side and aim as shown."

I just want to know that since no other balls are involved and its just four cushions, why does it say to use plenty of bottom?

Thanks.

isn't the bottom to help the right-hand side work better? I'm self taught but I believe to get max side on the cue ball, you also need to put a bit of bottom on - not a huge amount but make sure you're hitting below centre ...

PS the diagram looks way wrong cos it doesn't show the side working off the first cushion ... but it is an exhibition shot or indeed is a standard escape for competition players ... I can't immediately think of any YouTube links but I've seen this shot many times before ...

anyone got any links?

[poolqjunkie]

I thought applying bottoms actually curves the cue ball inwards, thus narrows the angles...

In that escape route, my understanding is that the writer is asking the player to try hit that shot with lots of side. I dont think you need to hit very low on the cue ball. But every table is different so well... i dont know... just set it up and try it I guess.

I remember I have seen this shot being played on youtube by a pro, but just cannot remember who...it was in an actual tournament when he did something almost identical to escape.

[Krypton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRG3f...om=PL&index=30

shot 2, Ronnie O'Sullivan.

I don't get it... "brilliant, absolutely brilliant", the comment. Sorry, not to sound priggish, but compared to the other shots, this one certainly is 'p1ss easy'.

To the question: If you hit it hard, the cueball will still be spinning backwards once it gets to the first cushion, so that will become top spin of the first, to help it around the baulk angles, and especially avoid the cueball's path to bow towards the first cushion (which might lead to a kiss on the colour you were snookered behind, or on the blue).

The execution: I called it 'p1ss easy' because I played this shot many many times and it really IS not that difficult. I play it to the spot exactly in the middle of the baulk pocket/cushion and the baulk line, or to one third of that distance away from baulk cushion, depending on the table. I hit it with NO bottom at all, exactly on the equator of the cueball, and with about one tip's width of running side.

the pace is NOT difficult to judge, the cushions will even help you, like in the break shot: running, running, running and CHECK side to keep the cueball going first, and slow it down into the reds.

Try it, always a good shot to have in your repertoire, also from behind the brown.

[Dragonsye]

Well, though I'm possibly reiterating what has already been said, the most side on the cue ball is achieved when struck at the most extreme bottom side. Let me make it clearer; you can get more side on the cue ball if you hit it in the meat of the ball (where there is enough contact to create spin) than if you hit it at the extreme. This is even true with screw, especially if the distance between the object ball and the cue ball is larger. I may be wrong, but I think this is because when the tip contacts with the extreme of a one inch radius from the center, there is contact which is prolonged enough (as opposed to the very corner of the cue ball) to create more spin.

So therefore as you don't necessarily get the most spin when hitting it on the extreme edge, and since as has been said previously, the bottom carries the cue ball further by becoming top after contact (in this case, after hitting the cushion), bottom side would create the most side on the cue ball.

[nutscrewsandbolts]

I tried this shot today and I didn't get any solid results. Maximum side without bottom sent the cue ball between the green and brown after hitting the second cushion. Bottom and side did what the digram shows. I didn't have too much time, I will try more later.

The comments about the bottom spin turning into top spin after hitting the cushion are new to me. I had asked this question earlier (Q no 2) , but upon practise, I found a lot of variables affect the result, especially power. I find it very difficult to hit with consistent power for a particular experimental set up.

[DandyA]

I tried this shot today and I didn't get any solid results. Maximum side without bottom sent the cue ball between the green and brown after hitting the second cushion. Bottom and side did what the digram shows. I didn't have too much time, I will try more later.

The comments about the bottom spin turning into top spin after hitting the cushion are new to me. I had asked this question earlier (Q no 2) , but upon practise, I found a lot of variables affect the result, especially power. I find it very difficult to hit with consistent power for a particular experimental set up.

yeah me too ... does bottom spin on the cue ball turn
into top spin after contact with a cushion?

I've always puzzled why (say) left hand side doesn't become right hand side after the cue ball bounces off a cushion and hence reverses direction but it definitely doesn't (it stays left hand side) so I'd have thought top/bottom must do the same ...

[Dragonsye]

The thing is side is alien to the natural directions of the cue ball - forward and backwards. Thats why side can do only so much, but most of the control is achieved with vertical axis ball striking.

On to the question; the reason is simple; its not the spin of the ball that changes!! On the contrary, that remains the same. But since the DIRECTION in which the ball is traveling changes, the spin which used to be bottom (in the initial direction) has now become top!! Think of it this way- if you play a straight shot to the cushion, it will return right back. Now- if you play this shot with bottom, the cue ball will be spinning TOWARDS you, while moving AWAY form you (hence the screw). BUT when it hits the cushion, and changes direction, it will be coming TOWARDS you, while still SPINNING TOWARDS you as well. So in effect, it becomes top spin (the cue ball spinning in the same direction it is traveling!!)

Hope this helped. I'm self taught (apart from the videos!!) and knew subconsciously that this happened, but didn't really think of figuring it out till now!!

[Krypton]

Dragonseye got it lined up correctly

Imagine the 3 cushion billiards shot (or snooker/pool trickshot) where the cueball is 'hugging' a cushion, which means that it will strike the same cushion over and over and over again while traveling along (like a child on a trampoline).

there are 2 possibilities to get that effect:

- either play from the cushion, with raised cue butt, to get some sort of massé effect. the cueball will, struck firmly, squid into the table a bit, and then start to bounce off the cushion several times, due to the heavy BACKSPIN applied. (backspin when standing at the cushion, playing away from it.)

- play the cueball onto the cushion, but this time standing at the opposite rail of the table, applying as much TOPSPIN as you can. You normally need an object ball to kill the fast forward momentum of the cueball close to the cushion - hit this object ball almost full ball. the cueball will then too start to hit the same cushion several times, while skidding along.

in both cases, the rotation of the cueball is TOWARDS the cushion, but depending on where you are playing from, this kind of rotation is either achieved by playing top, or bottom.


In the original shot explained, imagine the cueball was exactly where it hits the first (long) cushion. (when playing from behind the green, the cueball touches the first cushion approximately in the middle between baulk line and yellow pocket, on the long cushion. Place the cueball there. If you know want to play the shot (baulk cushion, long cushion behind green, past the blue, long cushion next to the middle pocket, and into the pack), you would play it with topspin and right hand side. this means: the cueball is rotating counter clockwise to spin it around the angles, and 'towards the green long cushion'.

if you play the shot from the original position behind the green, the short distance the cueball travels between green and the first cushion will not affect its rotation when played at a certain pace, especially on the pro's cloth. therefore, from behind, apply a counterclockwise rotation, and one towards the green long rail. standing outside the table near the green, these two types of rotation are called "back spin" and "right hand side" - there you are!!!


hope this isn't too complicated, but it should explain what the term "top- and back-spin change their direction off the first cushion" means.