Do any pros have an open 'v' grip?

[CoachGavin]

Hello,

Been experimenting with my own snooker grip recently and wondered if any of the top professionals have a gap in their grip between the cue and join between the thumb and first finger (V). I know the theory says the cue grip should have no gap between the 'v' or 'ring' and cue but I know the old school players like joe davis etc used this grip and with great effect.

My thinking is that in theory a gap in the 'v' at the top should help allow the cue to go through smoothly as the cue can go onto the back of the hand more easily on the follow through. If the 'v' is closed and more importantly if the first finger always remains at the same strength throughout then the cue butt has a tendancy to rise as you follow through. I have a video of steve davis as well where his grip is extremely loose and vering towards having a gap. There is also a video on the web of stephen lee making back to back centuries and in one he is playing some stun shots and his grip looks very light with a gap between the cue and top of the grip. Can anyone shed any light on his grip? - I know some of you have watched video analysis of top pros etc so if anyone can let me know which pros (if any) have a gap in their grip or even which ones have a very light grip that would be great.

[Terry Davidson]

Gavin:

I teach the 'no gap' method. However, to respond to your comments...I don't believe some of the pros pay that much attention to exactly how they grip the cue on all shots as long as it's nice and loose and on some shots there might be a gap.

I've noticed myself doing that when I'm in the zone and also that I'm not concentrating on my technique so much as concentrating on my position with the pot considered automatic.

In my video analysis of the pros I must admit I haven't really seen any or even noticed any where there's a gap above the butt in the address position, although I don't have a lot of good shots of the pros in the address position as the BBC tends to focus on the balls rather than the player

Terry

[poolqjunkie]

I was taught to keeping my V closed.
I used to shoot with my V opened when I was playing 9 ball, and a lot of 9 ball pros do that--like Efren Reyes and so on.
The most distint open V grip I have seen is from a local (canadian) ex snooker pro player called John Horsfall. He is also a Canadian 9 ball champion as he later changed to 9 ball from snooker. Perhaps the open V helps him to get his cue level when the cue takes up the room at the open V on his back swing.
On the followthrough when their cues hit their chests, I think a lot of the snooker players are not firmly touching their cues with their V. When I watch Ronnie, it appears that the cue is released with the last few fingers holding on it, and you can almost see the inside of his V. But I could be wrong, as I have never seen him up close live on the snooker table.
I do remember one year I watched Steve Davis played and I thought he did not really open up his grip like other snooker players, and his V seems pretty open to me--but he was playing 9 ball.

[CoachGavin]

Yeah. this is what i noticed about steve davis. He seemed to just have a very loose grip with an open v so that when he brought the cue back it just filled the gap. I coach the closed v but noticed that sometimes keeping an open 'v' means you get through the white better which has led to my experimenting with it and that led to me wondering about the pros and if anyone had any thoughts about it.

[poolqjunkie]

Yeah. this is what i noticed about steve davis. He seemed to just have a very loose grip with an open v so that when he brought the cue back it just filled the gap. I coach the closed v but noticed that sometimes keeping an open 'v' means you get through the white better which has led to my experimenting with it and that led to me wondering about the pros and if anyone had any thoughts about it.

I used to watch John Horsfall of Canada play. He was very similiar to Steve Davis, in that his cue was away from his body, and he had a big gap at the V, with his wrist seemingly locked, so his stroke appeared more like a simple motion mainly just consists of the lower arm. But I have never spoken to him about it so i am not sure if he did all these because of Steve Davis or what.

I do not really think any of the modern day snooker players play with such a big gap though, do they? I could see small gaps especially on their follow through, but not that drastic.

Ronnie seems to try to relase his cues at his follow through where I can almost see the inside of his V when his cue hit his chest.

[Terry Davidson]

I was told by Terry and Wayne Griffiths to eliminate the gap but still keep the grip as loose as possible. I do however note that I sometimes have a gap but it's a very small one when I'm going through the cueball well.

In discussing this with Wayne Griffiths it only refers to the address position and in the backswing the cue naturally comes up against the web between thumb and forefinger and then on completion of the delivery most players release the forefinger a bit and the gap is there.

poolqjunkie: remember Steve Davis always cocked his wrist to the right and locked it there rather than have it hanging naturally like Hendry for instance. He always played that way and still does, and I don't think he forces his thumb straight down but wraps it loosley onto the forefinger, but applying no pressure.

I think if there's no gap, or at least a very small one, at the address position then that's the correct way to go.

Gavin...I'd advise you to stop playing with your technique or else you'll get like I was up until recently and end up concentrating on it all the time, to the detrement of your game. I've finally broken free on that mindset and believe me, it's really helped me concentrate on cueball control during the shot which of course leads to the big breaks.

[CoachGavin]

Thanks for the advice but i am well past that point!

I started experimenting just after first taking up the game as their were no coaches about and that has continued ever since. It has had a positive affect in that I probably would not be as knowledgable as i am about the technical side if i had not had 'played about' with my game. I realise it has affected my own game but I now have children and no longer have the time to seriously work on my game anyway. I now concentrate more on the coaching side which I love.

Having said all that I have stopped messing about quite so much in the past year so that I do have a consistent action. I agree totally with what you say and I have returned to somewhere near my previous level of play. Thanks for caring - lol

[ferret]

I have some pictures of players grip form this years world championships, I will dig them out tomorrow and post them up.

I also have pics of stance and bridge hand too.

[Terry Davidson]

Thanks ferret, that would be very handy so we can have a look. The BBC DVDs I have here don't show a lot of the player's body as they're more into showing the actual balls on the shot.

Gavin:

Your experience sounds identical to mine in that there's nobody in Canada willing to coach (except for Cliff at $200hr) so I had to coach myself. Then my wife bought me Nic Barrow's DVD set from SnookerScene and I hooked up with Nic and got my Master Coach Certificate, but my best trainee is myself. This jouney has taken me around 3 years, but my game is now starting to come together again, but of course the other problem I have is age, which I can't overcome.

By the way, I contacted the WSA Coaching in Sheffield and they still give the training but they wait for 5 or more applications before they schedule a course. Problem is, they charge 1,500quid for 2 days training, including the exam and from what I've heard it's not the best coach training out there. Plus they seem to give preference to WPBSA members and my application would have to go to the 'committee' for evaluation and of course I'd need to get that 'no child molester' letter from the Canadian police and I don't think we even have that over here, just a letter saying no criminal convictions.

So it looks like I'll do my Senior Coach with the Matchroom and my Examiner's certificate with Nic and that will be it for this lifetime!

Terry

[CoachGavin]

I would have to agree it is very expensive although my application never went to a 'committee'. I think as long as you know your stuff and can help others improve thats the main thing and the qualifications only help to a certain extent.

Anyway, to me you seem to know what you are chatting about so thats good.

[Terry Davidson]

Gavin:

Jessica told me as I'm not a member of the WSA that my appliction would be reviewed by a committee and if rejected I would get back my money, so that sounds like I would have to pay up front before even knowing if I would be accepted. Funny way to run things I think.

I was told I would also need some kind of letter from the police stating that I'm not a child molester or convicted felon, which I would have to pay for myself too although they would cover the cost for the British police letter, which is also required even if a student is from overseas.

So for me it would cost about $5,000 for a 2-day course and I've been told by a successful student that the material is all contained on one page (one sided too) plus I can't schedule this when I'm over in the UK in January unless I get lucky and they have 4 other applications and with that I have no way to coordinate the dates as I have with Nic and the Matchroom.

So I guess that option is out for me as they've made it too difficult and too expensive to my way of thinking. I think it's a bit unfortunate in that they are supposed to be PROMOTING snooker internationally.

Cheers,
Terry

[CoachGavin]

I would have to agree but you said it not me-lol