Cueing Accross - A Mental Fault

[Terry Davidson]

brendan:

One thing you should keep in mind when reading playing technique tips from 20 or more years ago. THE GAME AND ITS TECHNIQUES HAVE ADVANCED OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS.

Joe Davis recommended the boxer stance and the straight bridge arm but almost every pro and good player in existence stands more square to the shot and also bends his bridge arm.

Jimmy developed his techniques for the thicker cloths and slower tables of 20 years ago just the same as Joe Davis developed his techniques for even thicker cloths and the even heavier crystalate (not super crystalate) balls.

Joe also advocated using the loop bridge on power shots because of this reason.

So take all that old stuff you seem to be reading and copying with a grain of salt unless you want to get an antique table, some 38oz cloth with a strong nap and a set of either ivory or crystalate snooker balls. Then you can copy Joe and Jimmy but of course you would be a little lost under modern conditions with thinner cloths and lighter balls

Terry

[Krypton]

Thanks Terry.

Main massage: Try to loop-bridge-shoot and massé-jump with raised butt into the pack from a half ball black. If you like. Because Jimmy might get it.

The rest of us will just play a normal stun/backscrew shot

[Terry Davidson]

brendan:

If you wish to be a good snooker player or at least an improved one under today's playing conditions then you should watch and learn from the videos you can get of TODAY'S top players.

Whatever they do in common in their techniques is very likely the best technique you can adopt. What they do in common I've outlined here many times, and you keep coming up with these weird and wonderful special one-off questions much better suited to players who are running 75+ breaks every day and thus have the technique down pretty pat and can move on to the more specialized shots.

WHY IN THE WORLD DO YOU WANT TO USE A SPECIALIZED 'HALF-MASSE' SHOT THAT EVEN JIMMY SAYS IS ONLY FOR A VERY SPECIFIC SET OF SHOTS???? And also one that you stand a very good chance of missing the pot unless it's right over the pocket.

I wish you would stop 'cherry-picking' from your books or research and ask straight-forward questions regarding your technique which would also help other people here on the Forum.

Terry

[brendan147]

Pleas don't over-react on every single post that says something against your theory - otherwise, asking is not necessary anyway.


I said:
IF (yeah, if. in case) somebody has too little cue power for a shot, he'd better go and try to develop a better technique, than starting to experiment with a trick-shot-style cue action.
in the long term, that will help more.

I never pretended your basic screw shot wasn't powerful enough - I only covered the case ANYbody might think this was the case (in a given situation)

you just don't read carefully!!!


you were talking about "splitting the pack off the black". no way jimmy would use the shot you mention and cite off his book, because it's not necessary when splitting.

what he actually describes there is a bouncing cue ball to make it bunny hop forwards AFTER contact and massé (almost ) back afterwards. that is an extremely difficult shot, with a very big risk of going wrong, that we more mortals should not use anyway.


the last thing you forget: you cannot compare jimmy's cue action and shot range with yourself, with me, with terry even. 95% of the pros don't come close to jimmy's power.
what you say is a little bit like: "but I have seen alex higgins pot balls when almost jumping during delivery, so it MUST work". yeah, it does work. but not for you.


again, for you: I think in general you don't read posts carefully enough and over-react quite often.

1) I never said Jimmy will use this type of shot to split the pack. I asked you to do it and tell me different. Next time, read carefully;

2) I never compare myself to you, Terry, or Jimmy's cue action shot range. Next time, read carefully; &

3)ln general, my original question to Terry was very simple. When is necessary to use this type of shot? That's all. Next time, read carefully.

Another thing, if you just keep telling yourself "I could never be as good as Jimmy or the other pro", then it is unlikely you will improve your games and go beyond normal player level, at least in my opinion. So, you will end up as average player....haaaaaaaaaa?

Nothing wrong with reading the MASTERCLASS book or whatever. Knowledge is priceless, and it is also can be upgraded, even it is already 20 years old.

Peace.

[brendan147]

brendan:

If you wish to be a good snooker player or at least an improved one under today's playing conditions then you should watch and learn from the videos you can get of TODAY'S top players.

Whatever they do in common in their techniques is very likely the best technique you can adopt. What they do in common I've outlined here many times, and you keep coming up with these weird and wonderful special one-off questions much better suited to players who are running 75+ breaks every day and thus have the technique down pretty pat and can move on to the more specialized shots.

WHY IN THE WORLD DO YOU WANT TO USE A SPECIALIZED 'HALF-MASSE' SHOT THAT EVEN JIMMY SAYS IS ONLY FOR A VERY SPECIFIC SET OF SHOTS???? And also one that you stand a very good chance of missing the pot unless it's right over the pocket.

I wish you would stop 'cherry-picking' from your books or research and ask straight-forward questions regarding your technique which would also help other people here on the Forum.

Terry

Terry..Terry..Terry...

I really respect you, but if you see my original question to you was "Can you tell me some example in what situation we can necessarily use this type of shot in our game? Do you recommend this type of shot for a powerful long pot shot?". See post #96, page 10. If I am not mistaken, that was a very straight forward question to you.

Anyway, thanks for your explainations regarding this type of shot. I do watch the latest pro tournament in youtube. Nevertheless, whatever Jimmy's or Steve Davis' wrote in their books back in 20 or 30 years ago are still priceless knowledges to me, from the basic techniques, up to its advance.

And do not misunderstood me, because IMHO it is still the best if I also learn from these two snooker legends. I am here to upgrade my knowledge and also learn more from you, too. That is all about.

Thanks.

[brendan147]

Thanks Terry.

Main massage: Try to loop-bridge-shoot and massé-jump with raised butt into the pack from a half ball black. If you like. Because Jimmy might get it.

The rest of us will just play a normal stun/backscrew shot

Do not include me in your "the rest of us" words because that's your maximum level of playing, not me. In other words, I don't want to be an average player like you. I have ambition and passion to go and achieve higher level. I am here to learn from a professional coach like Terry, not to argue with an "average player" like you.

I am done with you...taaaataaaaaaaaaa.....

[Krypton]

3)ln general, my original question to Terry was very simple. When is necessary to use this type of shot? That's all. Next time, read carefully.

and exactly this one was answered in my first post:

I found out in my game that this "down stroke" shot give me more power and control of cueing, and also ball cue ball positioning, if this shot handled properly.

Can you tell me some example in what situation we can necessarily use this type of shot in our game? Do you recommend this type of shot for a powerful long pot shot?

(you think you got more power and control cueing? downwards? - doubtable!)

Shot 2 is extremely damageable by only the slightest trace of unwanted side spin. Keep your cue as level as possible unless you really cannot play like shot 1.

I'd only use 2 as seldom as possible, let's say when screwing back for a tricky shot with the object ball very close to the cue ball.

this pretty much answered it: a) dangerous, b) as seldom as possible. NEVER if not necessary.


nevertheless you CAME up with the split question:

Split the reds pack off the black using this down stroke shot using:

a) Half ball angle and centre cue ball shot (no side); &
b) The black, of course, must go into the top pocket.

Tell me different later on mate.

and even here I indeed was careful and did answer:

The same result could be achieved by using a shot 1.
...
why would someone decide to take the risk ... (if one) ... can pot the black and go into the pack with a normal shot?

which means: no difference when trying to split or playing a 'normal' shot...


read carefully :P

[brendan147]

Gosshhh....

and exactly this one was answered in my first post:




(you think you got more power and control cueing? downwards? - doubtable!)



this pretty much answered it: a) dangerous, b) as seldom as possible. NEVER if not necessary.


nevertheless you CAME up with the split question:



and even here I indeed was careful and did answer:


which means: no difference when trying to split or playing a 'normal' shot...


read carefully :P

I didn't ask you at first place. It was for Terry. So, READ CAREFULLY...

My last post to you was "I am done with you". So, READ CAREFULLY...

These should explain you a lot, unless you still want to continue arguing. My interest here is to learn from Terry, not YOU. So, THINK & READ CAREFULLY...

Done. -END-

[Krypton]

I did read that, but didn't expect you to get so pizzed if someone else answers. If you think the rest of this community won't be able to help... that's up to you. Originally, this is neither a Terry, nor your thread, so it's kinda open to discussion. And then, as T. said I was correct... - pfff, I'm done with you then. To bed without dinner, honey

As for Terry exclusive questions without anybody else disturbing you or daring to answer: book him or us pm then

[brendan147]

Pffffff..............

I did read that, but didn't expect you to get so pizzed if someone else answers. If you think the rest of this community won't be able to help... that's up to you. Originally, this is neither a Terry, nor your thread, so it's kinda open to discussion. And then, as T. said I was correct... - pfff, I'm done with you then. To bed without dinner, honey

As for Terry exclusive questions without anybody else disturbing you or daring to answer: book him or us pm then

So what if Terry said you was right?..pfffff.............

[Krypton]

now stop it dude. to bed I said!

[poolqjunkie]

Shot (1) is the basic screw shot. You should know this. Your bridge has to be lowered from your normal bridge.

Shot (2) is another way (a more advance way) of screw shot and your strike must be straight and downward just a little below the cue ball's centre. However, overdoing it will cause the cue ball jump, or too less power will cause the cue ball stunning instead of screwing.

Anyway, let's wait how coach Terry giving his comment about shot (2).

You are just digging down on the ball with shot (2). I used to do that, but I have found that you get no consistency with that type of "screw" on long distance shots. I also have problem controling my cue ball consistently that way. Of course, any side is also greatly magnified. I guess if you are afraid of a push shot or you may have to do it because you do not want to follow through too much...you will just have to do that.

But regardless, your cue will always be hitting down on the ball slightly when you apply screw, you cannot have a perfect level cueing with screw shots. I think the issue is how much your butt should raise, and I think the commonly accepted answer is as little as possible.

I woud suggest you to get used to hitting really low on the ball, with as little of a raised butt as you can, to get more screw, rather then trying to rasie you butt real high and hit just below center.

It is not that easy to hit really low on the cue ball, it requires very precise cueing. I am not sure what level you are at, but I suspect you are not really used to hitting real low on the cue ball. When you can do that with lots of cue speed, you can get lows of screw.

[Forman]

Do not include me in your "the rest of us" words because that's your maximum level of playing, not me. In other words, I don't want to be an average player like you. I have ambition and passion to go and achieve higher level. I am here to learn from a professional coach like Terry, not to argue with an "average player" like you.

I am done with you...taaaataaaaaaaaaa.....

Where is all this attitude comming from?

I don't understand what part of krypton's posts inspired you to be so rude, this forum is a great place to learn and get advice from many different members but if you're going to dismiss and insult anyone other than terry that replies to your questions then just do us all a favour and send him a PM.

Also as terry said, everything krypton has told you is 100% correct and you really are embarrassing yourself acting in such a hostile manner.

[RGCirencester]

My interest here is to learn from Terry, not YOU

Mate your attitude here has started to grate on me. Terry doesn't have to answer anyones questions on this forum. He does so out of the kindness of his heart and wishes to help as many people as possible.
You cannot devalue other peoples opinions, as even "professional coaches" can disagree on some topics, and each will have different ways of teaching things.

If you want a personal coaching session I am sure Terry will oblige with his considerable experience for a fee, or send him a pm. If you want to hear many peoples opinions (including Terrys), and engage in debate therein, then post on a thread in a forum.

[brendan147]

You are just digging down on the ball with shot (2). I used to do that, but I have found that you get no consistency with that type of "screw" on long distance shots. I also have problem controling my cue ball consistently that way. Of course, any side is also greatly magnified. I guess if you are afraid of a push shot or you may have to do it because you do not want to follow through too much...you will just have to do that.

But regardless, your cue will always be hitting down on the ball slightly when you apply screw, you cannot have a perfect level cueing with screw shots. I think the issue is how much your butt should raise, and I think the commonly accepted answer is as little as possible.

I woud suggest you to get used to hitting really low on the ball, with as little of a raised butt as you can, to get more screw, rather then trying to rasie you butt real high and hit just below center.

It is not that easy to hit really low on the cue ball, it requires very precise cueing. I am not sure what level you are at, but I suspect you are not really used to hitting real low on the cue ball. When you can do that with lots of cue speed, you can get lows of screw.

Now, these type of answers is somewhat I can accept. Eventhough I asked Terry about it, your answers are very satisfying me (Even I don't agree on some of your statements...which I will refuse to mention it here)

To Krypton, next time if you don't have too much explaination as poolqjunkie and Terry Davidson have, I suggest that you better to stay on the sideline, just wait and see someone better giving his/her opinion.

Anyway, I have another example using this type of shot form Jimmy's book, but it is better for me not to share it here, since someone will be going to say "you can never play like him". To me, this kind of attitude is just another form of a mental fault, and it is very sobering to say that there are still many club/average level player regarding themselves to play only at normal level and cannot achieve higher playing level. I don't want to be that type of person.

I am just so lucky having Steve Davis (basic technique and theory) and Jimmy's book (advance technique and theory) in my collection. They were two great champions and I believe many snooker player outside there still don't have thier books.

Again, if what I learn from them is already outdated, that is fine. And for those who still want to get these two great snooker legends books, find it out yourselves and all the best. Believe me, their introductions remain the same, KEEP THE BASIC RIGHT. That is all really matter.

Alright, onto the next question...!!!