Cueing Accross - A Mental Fault

[Terry Davidson]

bkpaul:

I absolutely agree with your comments, however there are some members here who believe some pros adjust their aim while they are down on the shot and site Mark Selby as an example because the camera shows him moving his head side-to-side when he's down.

I try and tell them just because one pro does that (and it's become natural for him and he always ends up where he originally started) that they shouldn't copy that. You could take all 16 of the top pros and cherry-pick one bad habit from each of them and end up with the worst technique in the world!

Terry

[hatterboard]

after last tuesdays at stu greens, ive come to the conclusion i dont know how ive played for 25 years. the biggest thing ive taken on board is the pause. ive started counting my feathering strokes, an on the backswing stop, think the word ready, then take the shot. the thing i have with the pause is that people have told me the shots pace is created by a pendulum effect. surely by having a pause we are taking the shot from a standing start if yer will ?

[KeithinFrance]

the thing i have with the pause is that people have told me the shots pace is created by a pendulum effect. surely by having a pause we are taking the shot from a standing start if yer will ?

You're absolutely right, with the pause you are taking the shot from a standing start. The misconception you had was with the "shot's pace ... created by a pendulum effect" which isn't accurate. The pendulum effect means that if your backswing is 6", then you must cue past the white by 6" also. Your shot's pace is created by the amount you cue past the white, BUT it's not the pendulum which causes the pace.

I've just read this again, and I'm not 100% certain it's clear for me, so if it's not for you, then I apologise! Maybe one of the coaches can explain this better.

[bkpaul]

Sorry keith I disagree, the delivery provides the pace, albeit I think I know where you are coming from.

I have never been a believer in the relationship between the back swing and the distance past the cue ball as this can be proved to be neither here nor there, the distance past the cue ball has several other effects on the cue ball though.

I guess I will get pulled for my comments above to some degree as I know several coaches who swear by the "pendulum effect" and the relationship between the backswing and the follow through.

All I will say in my defence is try elongating the follow through and then play the same shot with a shorter follow through (same pace in both cases) and you will see what I mean. In both cases the cue ball should be played say full ball at the object ball to see the effect.

Also try this shot.....

Place the blue on its spot and the white 3" towards the baulk line and half way between the blue and the cushion (usual pack splitting angle)

Now with a pendulum follow through play top left hand side with power and see where the white goes. (usually left hand side of pack if you are playing from the yellow side of the table. (if you elongate the follow through more it will miss the pack)

Now do the same shot but shorten (very short!) the follow through (creating a punch effect) this will either hit the right hand edge of the pack or miss the pack entirely on the right hand side.

So in effect you are playing a stun/screw with top! albeit it certainly isn't a screw shot.

So what the pendulum actually does is makes many shots impossible to play!.

I have yet to work out why I would want to play the shot I described except as an example of what can be done if a shot is played correctly to achieve a given goal.

[C-J]

Sorry keith I disagree, the delivery provides the pace, albeit I think I know where you are coming from.

I have never been a believer in the relationship between the back swing and the distance past the cue ball as this can be proved to be neither here nor there, the distance past the cue ball has several other effects on the cue ball though.

I guess I will get pulled for my comments above to some degree as I know several coaches who swear by the "pendulum effect" and the relationship between the backswing and the follow through.

All I will say in my defence is try elongating the follow through and then play the same shot with a shorter follow through (same pace in both cases) and you will see what I mean. In both cases the cue ball should be played say full ball at the object ball to see the effect.

Also try this shot.....

Place the blue on its spot and the white 3" towards the baulk line and half way between the blue and the cushion (usual pack splitting angle)

Now with a pendulum follow through play top left hand side with power and see where the white goes. (usually left hand side of pack if you are playing from the yellow side of the table. (if you elongate the follow through more it will miss the pack)

Now do the same shot but shorten (very short!) the follow through (creating a punch effect) this will either hit the right hand edge of the pack or miss the pack entirely on the right hand side.

So in effect you are playing a stun/screw with top! albeit it certainly isn't a screw shot.

So what the pendulum actually does is makes many shots impossible to play!.

I have yet to work out why I would want to play the shot I described except as an example of what can be done if a shot is played correctly to achieve a given goal.

In the end when your done with technics it's all about feel and that's how you really want to play

[bkpaul]

Very true C-J and thats why people are different, each develop their own way of playing.. would be really boring if everyone was the same!

[dpdubai]

Yes, if a player consistently delivers the cue off-straight and stays down and gets the proper feedback he will eventually compensate for that in his aiming. Shooting the spots is not the greatest idea to check for straight cueing (see Frank Callan's explanation in his book).

There are 7 things which a por has to do well and that most amateurs under the 75-break level or so don't do well. The are:

1. Get down to the line of aim straight with no sideways head movement.
2. Loose grip
3. Absolutely no body movement throughout from feathering to end of delivery
4. Slow backswing
5. Rear pause
6. Build acceleration on the delivery slow to fast
7. Stay down and still with no body movement and cue extended at the end of the shot and follow object ball with eyes only, do not move head (but Steve Davis says leave your eyes where the cueball WAS)

Do those 7 things consistently and gets lots of practice and have the motivation to succeed and you will reach the consistent century-break level.

Terry

Terry,

I dug up another one of your old posts, hope you have some time to look at this.

I can totally see the importance of the points your making and believe me my cue action and the foundation of my game is one the things i try to build on in EVERY practice session and every time i go to the table.

I know things vary from player to player depending on ability and also how much time their putting in on the table but how should I gauge my progress toward the century break player standard?

Practicing 3-4 times a week, working on the 7 points with huge desire to hit regular tonnes in matchplay how long does this take for an average 40 breaker?

[C-J]

the secret to confidence is in #1,what happens with your head and in your head when you go down.If something is wrong here the other points have little to no value.

[checkSide]

the secret to confidence is in #1,what happens with your head and in your head when you go down.If something is wrong here the other points have little to no value.

I totally agree with this.

It's amazing how much of the game is in your head, even at the beginners levels.

[Terry Davidson]

dpdubai:

First of all, consistently hitting tons in matchplay is a PROFESSIONAL standard. If you have ambitions to become a professional then you will have to have some kind of independent means so you can eat, breathe and sleep snooker.

The 7 steps I outlined are designed to get a student to consistently deliver the cue straight, which is the secret to improving rapidly at snooker and is very, very difficult to achieve and for those who don't want to listen and learn it becomes almost impossible to improve.

How rapidly you improve is something I cannot predict for you without a few conditions. The first condition would be that you MUST get to a point where you are delivering the cue straight at least 95% of the time. A lot of players will say they do this when in reality they are not and will not believe a coach when he tells them they are not. It sometimes takes years to get to the straight delivery point and it takes a lot of practice, motiviation and dedication.

Once you reach a point where you can deliver the cue straight 95% (or better) ALL THE TIME then I would say within 1 to 2 years you should be able to run tons consistently.

Now here's a very simple test to see how far you're progressing on straight delivery. Place the blue on spot and line 10 object balls one inch apart on each side of the blue to the middle pockets.

Place the cueball on the balkline so the blue is straight in and pot it at any speed you like, although I would suggest medium pace and stun. Once you pot the blue take the cueball in hand and place it on the baulkline straight in on any other object ball. Repeat until you play all 21 balls and count how many you pot out of the 21. Keep a mental record of your highest score.

In Frank Callan's book he says Steve Davis in his prime got to 19 in a row and bottled on the 20th.

If you think you are delivering the cue straight all the time then you should make all 21 of these balls (barring kicks). If you are not then you cannot be delivering the cue straight ALL THE TIME. In other words, you are not doing one of those 7 points correctly. (The biggest error is movement on the shot in either the backswing or delivery which can be caused by almost anything, like too tight a grip, too narrow a stance, breathing in on the backswing, wrist movement, bridge movement or a host of others).

If, on the 21 balls, you can make 95% of them or in other words 20 of them (maybe not in a row but 20 out of 21) then you can say you must be delivering the cue straight and now you have the correct technique to improve rapidly.

I haven't tried this exercise in quite awhile although the best out of 21 I ever did was 13, so don't despair plus they were not in a row. (John Parrot used to line up 6 on each side of the blue since as you get to the balls closer to the middle pockets of course the top pockets become closed and the room for error is very small).

If you find you can't get past one or two of the balls then move the cueball to within 2ft of the object balls and when you get 20 from there move the cueball back 6in and try it from there. When you get 20 at that distance move the cueball back another 6in until you reach the baulkline.

In fact, start out with the cueball 1ft behnind the balls in the first instance and move back from there 6in once you get 20 or the 21.

Terry

[dpdubai]

the secret to confidence is in #1,what happens with your head and in your head when you go down.If something is wrong here the other points have little to no value.

Thanks C-J, I know what your saying here.
S'pose the confidence in getting down to the right line only comes through practice, knowing you have selected the right line and that your cueing is true.

[dpdubai]

dpdubai:

First of all, consistently hitting tons in matchplay is a PROFESSIONAL standard. If you have ambitions to become a professional then you will have to have some kind of independent means so you can eat, breathe and sleep snooker.

The 7 steps I outlined are designed to get a student to consistently deliver the cue straight, which is the secret to improving rapidly at snooker and is very, very difficult to achieve and for those who don't want to listen and learn it becomes almost impossible to improve.

How rapidly you improve is something I cannot predict for you without a few conditions. The first condition would be that you MUST get to a point where you are delivering the cue straight at least 95% of the time. A lot of players will say they do this when in reality they are not and will not believe a coach when he tells them they are not. It sometimes takes years to get to the straight delivery point and it takes a lot of practice, motiviation and dedication.

Once you reach a point where you can deliver the cue straight 95% (or better) ALL THE TIME then I would say within 1 to 2 years you should be able to run tons consistently.

Now here's a very simple test to see how far you're progressing on straight delivery. Place the blue on spot and line 10 object balls one inch apart on each side of the blue to the middle pockets.

Place the cueball on the balkline so the blue is straight in and pot it at any speed you like, although I would suggest medium pace and stun. Once you pot the blue take the cueball in hand and place it on the baulkline straight in on any other object ball. Repeat until you play all 21 balls and count how many you pot out of the 21. Keep a mental record of your highest score.

In Frank Callan's book he says Steve Davis in his prime got to 19 in a row and bottled on the 20th.

If you think you are delivering the cue straight all the time then you should make all 21 of these balls (barring kicks). If you are not then you cannot be delivering the cue straight ALL THE TIME. In other words, you are not doing one of those 7 points correctly. (The biggest error is movement on the shot in either the backswing or delivery which can be caused by almost anything, like too tight a grip, too narrow a stance, breathing in on the backswing, wrist movement, bridge movement or a host of others).

If, on the 21 balls, you can make 95% of them or in other words 20 of them (maybe not in a row but 20 out of 21) then you can say you must be delivering the cue straight and now you have the correct technique to improve rapidly.

I haven't tried this exercise in quite awhile although the best out of 21 I ever did was 13, so don't despair plus they were not in a row. (John Parrot used to line up 6 on each side of the blue since as you get to the balls closer to the middle pockets of course the top pockets become closed and the room for error is very small).

If you find you can't get past one or two of the balls then move the cueball to within 2ft of the object balls and when you get 20 from there move the cueball back 6in and try it from there. When you get 20 at that distance move the cueball back another 6in until you reach the baulkline.

In fact, start out with the cueball 1ft behnind the balls in the first instance and move back from there 6in once you get 20 or the 21.

Terry

Thanks Terry, Im very grateful for your input to my game.

I'm pretty familiar with the long straight potting drill and its importance.
Out of 10 reds similar to the John Parrot style my record is 6 out of 10. I used to do it with 15 reds also and got to 8 a few times.

I've always played snooker for fun on and off probably since i was 10 years old. This year I've taken a huge interest in the game and want to play to the best of my ability.

I practice 3 times a week for 3-4 hours and league matchplay at least once.
I can be very ruthless with myself in practice if required because I know its only going to benefit me in the long run, for example I could spend 4 hours on the long potting drill alone if I knew it was going to work wonders.

However I just fear slightly that doing that alone for say 2-3 weeks of practice sessions would my positional play and ability to assess angles suffer?

I guess these are fairly simple questions regarding practice, to be balanced is probably the best routine but I just dont like the "jack of all trades, master of none mentality". I know straight delivery is the foundation of the game so its important to me to master it.

If you think its best should I spend a good period of time ie a few weeks possibly more dedicating my practice session to cue action before going back to varied drills?

Thanks in advance Terry

[Looki]

Great posts from Terry here and some other threads. I've been struggling with my cueing for some time now. Well maybe always.. When I started playing I just played on without thinking my technique that much. I carried on about two years or so like that but when I realised that my game isn't going anywhere l started thinking the technical side. I took a couple of coaching session and I've tried to build on that for a about two years.

The sessions that I had didn't contain such a detailed information about alignment and cueing that I've read from Terry's posts.

It's very hard to "learn away" from the bad technique once you've learnt to hit ball badly but I'm trying now with Terry's instructions and also thinking about having a few coaching sessions more. After a few weeks with Terry's advice I've realised that it's going to take some time but I try to maintain my patience. I've also come to realise that I'm not able to do it alone because you can't always know what you're doing wrong so it's good to have someone else there to look.

[Terry Davidson]

You are absolutely correct in saying that it's much better to not do all of this alone (as I've been doing for 3 years now). If you do then get a video camera and video yourself so at least you can get the correct feedback.

Also, don't practice one set of drills to the exclusion of all others. Always try and balance your practice and set a deadline of either time or number...i.e. - I will do long straight pots for 30 minutes or 30 attempts and then move on to something else.

Also, just before the end of your practice session set the balls up for a normal frame and just relax and go for everything! This will teach you what your limits are and also relieve some of the pressure and boredom of doing straight drills all the time.

Terry
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Originally posted at Http://www.thesnookergym.com/forums

[kjozsa]

Terry,

thanks a lot for the practice method you described above, I'm really curious what my results would be.

I wonder if you have a couple of other practices already written either here on the forums or elsewhere on the net..?