Cueing Accross - A Mental Fault

[Terry Davidson]

For hatterboard & choy & everyone else:

I made a mistake in my advice regarding soft screw control (or maybe I should say it was a test to see if you could figure it out)

What I meant to say was 'place the object ball on the BLUE spot, cueball set up for 1/2-ball (approx) pot into the middle pocket (on either side of blue). Try and get the cueball to come to rest on the BROWN or PINK spots. Do 5 to brown and 5 to pink from each side of the table.

Although the spot is considered the primary target, anywhere within 1in around the spot is acceptable, so don't beat yourself up too much. It's tough to hit the spot right on.

choy, you can try the blue spot using the top or bottom cushion, however that would be VERY difficult as cueball will be traveling 12ft or so.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

dpdubai:

Just in case I didn't mention this one, you can set up the red in a zig-zag pattern between pink and black so that only one red goes at a time and you can only pot black. Nic Barrow's exercise shows 10 reds, which I found too difficult so I tried the 6 reds as recommended by Alan Macmanus (I think it was) which is still pretty tough but doable. I've tried this exercise 50 times and managed to get about 5 of them. As that's only 10% success rate that means the exercise is too tough for my skill level so I switch to just 4 reds and allowing the pink ball and I found I could do this one about 70% of the time (since now if you end up on the wrong side of the red you can play for pink ball).

I know this is cheating but you still get the one red at a time thing and it more closely resembles an actual end-frame situation.

The idea being, no drill or exercise should be so difficult that you can only do it 10 or 20% of the time as that will lead to frustration. Pick something that you can accomplish over 50% of the time and this will give you a feeling of accomplishment and also some confidence.

For instance, with continuous blacks off the spot, set a time limit or a target number that's reasonable (not 100, but maybe 25 or 30, depending on your skill level). Make the exercise a challenge but make it one you can accomplish.

Terry

[mutalieb]

Hi All

It's really been a long, long time since I have been in here.

Terry, I met Nic Barrow in Thailand at the IBSF World champs in 2007. Peter Francisco and myself represented South Africa at the time. Mind you I played well up to certain point where I had a bathroom accident and hurt my shoulder.

Having said that I have since developed cueitis and it's now driving me crazy. My delivery is so jerky that I sometimes even stop completely before striking the cue-ball.

I have looked at my situation introspectively but can't seem to overcome this mental barrier. What can one possibly do or implement to eradicate this flawed action?

Thanks in advance

Mutalieb Allie

[Terry Davidson]

Mutalieb:

I think what you might have done is called 'negative reinforcement', especially if you experienced pain on your cue delivery after you injured your shoulder.

First off, I can't claim to be really up there on this type of mental problem, however I will suggest an exercise which I hope helps you. If it doesn't then I would suggest you join 'TheSnookerGym.com', the Bronze website which is free and contact Nic Barrow who might have some other suggestions as he has studied the mental side of the sport more than I have.

I think what's happening is you are hesitant to hit the cueball because unconciously your mind is now associating that with causing pain in the shoulder. To get around that I think you should try to eliminate the cueball from your delivery, or at least a concious view of it.

Try this exercise and see if it helps. Take all 21 object balls and place them beside the middle pocket and place one on the blue spot. Cueball on the yellow spot (for right-handed, on the green if you happen to be left handed).

Approach the shot as you normally do aiming to pot the ball in the top pocket at just above pocket weight (so the cueball will just reach the top cushion). Do your normal feathering and then stop the cue at the cueball (the 'address position').

NOW, CLOSE YOUR EYES and take the shot as you normally would. When your eyes are closed try and sense what your right hand is doing, concentrating on pulling the cue straight back (VERY SLOWLY), pausing at the rear and then deliver as per normal, keeping your eyes closed until the shot is complete. STAY COMPLETELY STILL ON THE SHOT!!!!

You MUST ensure your grip hand hits your chest and you MUST keep your grip VERY LOOSE throughout the shot until the hand hits the chest. Keep repeating this shot until you pot all 21 object balls. At your skill level I would expect this to take somewhere around 25 to 28 attempts.

The next time you practice, play the first 11 balls with your eyes closed and then the remaining 10 with your eyes open as in a normal shot, but keep your concentration on what your right hand is doing and keep your grip loose and remember to ensure your grip hand hits your chest and at that point with the cue extended and your grip hand on your chest stay still and don't open your eyes for at least 2 seconds (this is the 4th pause in an 'ideal' cue action).

Keep doing this each time you practice and repeat for about 10 times. It will likely happen that you will become more consistent at potting the balls with your eyes closed than with them open (it happens to everyone) but don't worry, just try and bring what you're doing with your eyes closed into your normal play with your eyes open.

The 3 most important points are, very loose grip (so loose I could pull the cue out of your grip if I grabbed the end of the butt), stay absolutely still throughout the feathering, backswing and delivery and leave the cue extended with grip hand against the chest for at least 2 seconds after you deliver the cue.

Try this exercise and let me know if it seems to be helping.

Terry

[C-J]

Hi All

It's really been a long, long time since I have been in here.

Terry, I met Nic Barrow in Thailand at the IBSF World champs in 2007. Peter Francisco and myself represented South Africa at the time. Mind you I played well up to certain point where I had a bathroom accident and hurt my shoulder.

Having said that I have since developed cueitis and it's now driving me crazy. My delivery is so jerky that I sometimes even stop completely before striking the cue-ball.

I have looked at my situation introspectively but can't seem to overcome this mental barrier. What can one possibly do or implement to eradicate this flawed action?

Thanks in advance

Mutalieb Allie

Maybe because of your accident your attention is too much with your arm having trouble to maintain the line it once effortless could.If this is the case try having full attention on the objectball...

[seppo147]

The basis of this problem starts when you go down.If you take your eye of the exact spot on the objectball to early and look at the white or the line you think the white has to take you're in trouble.

When you go down keep your eyes on the objectball and don't make any(sub)consious line-changes at this point.Coordinate this very carefully and take your time to let it become very clear.Soon you will automatically start coordinating your mastereye(if you have one) with this and the urge should disappear.

Works to me
Like i am right hander i have problems to go halfball green from spot and play to brown comes most problems. I was having that same problem with all pots where have to hit right side to object ball. Learning the line and trust it.

[seppo147]

And i have problems with eyes,left eye sees cueball and right eye sees object ball. If i start to aim when i am down i miss all the balls. Rest shots my left eye see object ball.

[brendan147]

Hi Terry,

I am new to this forum, but I played snooker for quite a long time already. On and off, just as an usual club player as I ever been. But I do love this game very much.

Are you suggesting that the slow backswing for cueing arm is somewhere about 45 degree angle? I found that when I do this consistently, the delivery also perfectly straight (unless my stance/bridge is not steady...or somebody in the club distract me).

[Terry Davidson]

Seppo:

I don't understand how you can say your eyes see differently unless you have a real vision problem. I have to ask, when you drive a car does one eye look at the road and the other at the speedometer? I wouldn't believe that's possible.

Keep your nose aimed at the back of the object ball (BOB) and your eyes focused on the object ball until your bridge hand is on the table and the cue is in the address position. Then, and only then, start your feathering and moving your focus between the 2 balls (but not the pocket).

brendan:

Don't worry about the angle of your elbow, nor the length of your backswing, just ensure whatever the length that it's S-L-O-W.

For the 'ideal' cue action the backswing brings the cue ferrule into the 'V' of your bridge (around 8in) and to keep the cue level you must drop the elbow, probably to an angle of 45degrees or so (see John Higgins). However, there are a lot of players (not pros, as most pros are now using a longer backswing) who have a shorter backswing and don't drop the elbow at all on the backswing but may or may not drop it on the delivery. It all depends on your own natural rhythm and just how good you want to get.

If you have ambitions to play as good as a pro, then you will have a longer backswing, drop the elbow near the end of it to keep the cue level and also drop it on the delivery to get more follow-through and to keep the cue level at the end of the delivery. The choice is yours, but the 'ideal' technique is dropping the elbow at both ends of its travel.

It's VERY hard to learn to coordinate this if you didn't start out playing this way although it can be accomplished with a lot of work and practice.

Terry

[seppo147]

Terry
Close im watching with left eye,far to look my right eye takes control.some points they work same place. I take backline with right eye. When im down left sees cueball.
This interesting but true. Car im driving with glasses and watching tv. I just trust my line from up!

[brendan147]

Hello Terry,

Thanks for your advise. I am not worrying about the angle of my backsing elbow, and I do apply SLOW backswing in my cueing. Frankly speaking, I would say the great Stephen Hendry gives the best example of backswing technique, and I believe millions of his fan including myself trying our best applying his technique in our games . I don't like John Higgins (cause he is boring to watch - his playing style make me sleepy).

Another problem is the consistency of long pot. I read Jimmy White's and Steve Davis' books, both saying that we should have imaginary line to pot an object ball. Well, that's quite easy today when we are using plain ball striking as long as the cue action is correct. However, the imaginary line does not produce the same result when we are applying off centre striking (top spin shot if the cue ball at/nearby the cushion and drag shot for the ide of positioning the cue ball much better).

What is the best approach behind this scenario then? A consistent long pot has much to do with a perfect cueing (backswing action and cue delivery) as well.

Thanks.

[mutalieb]

Thx for the assistance Terry, as well as your input CJ. It's much appreciated and I will certainly try your method and provide you with some feedback.

rgds,
Mutalieb

[Looki]

I don't like John Higgins (cause he is boring to watch - his playing style make me sleepy).

An interesting opinion. I wouldn't second that. His style isn't that different from Hendry's IMO. Except that his tactical level is way better than Hendry's.

However, you (and I and all of us) have much to learn from him technical-wise. I'd give a large amount of money if I could have his cue action.

[Terry Davidson]

OK, first of all, DO NOT copy Hendry's backswing and delivery down to the letter as he has a serious flaw in it (which he has been told about and refuses to believe). If you watch very carefully on a head-on shot you will see he drops his elbow in towards the middle of his back on the backswing and then brings it back out to the right on his delivery.

This causes him to cue across the ball a lot of times and his long potting has suffered. All the pundits say it's because of age but it's not, it's just he has picked up a technical flaw over the years and I hope his coach can correct this for him as I would like to see him win a few more. He didn't have this problem in the 90's at all, however he stood over to the left on the shot and twisted his back quite severely, which is likely something he can't do now due to age, but this looks like it kept his elbow on the line of the shot all the time.

John Higgins elbow hangs slightly into his back, however he pulls everything back straight and delivers the cue very straight. He does drop his elbow more than any other player on the backswing, but it's really pure and if you're going to copy someone, I'd say better Higgins than Hendry BUT why not copy the best cue action in the game? Believe it or not that is Stephen Lee with Shaun Murphy coming in a close second (Ronnie's technique is very difficult to copy by the way).

Brendan:

The line of aim still comes into play when applying side, however EVEN THE PROS GUESS WHEN APPLYING SIDE TO A LONG SHOT. It's too difficult to judge siding's effect on the cueball over a long shot (will it get pushed out too far? will it come back too far? power also plays into this and siding will cause a different cueball reaction at different speeds.

Now to the point...WHY ARE YOU USING SIDING ON LONG POTS? IF YOU WATCH THE PROS AT ALL YOU SHOULD NOTICE THEY WILL ONLY USE SIDING ON LONG SHOTS FOR TICK-OFF SAFETYS AND THEN THEY SCREW IT UP AROUND 30% OF THE TIME AT LEAST. Stuart Bingham uses siding a lot on safety shots and continuously screws up, hitting then either too thin or too think a lot of the time and it costs him match after match but he hasn't seemed to learn from his mistakes.

Professionals use siding very little, maybe 2-3% of the time and only on pots with a larger margin of error and only when a cushion comes into play (like potting a red around the black and using SLIGHT side to hit the cushion to go up on the blue. That's because they are basically guessing (through lots of experience) on the line of aim. To emphasize this point, Ronnie lost the 8th frame in the Grand Prix recently to Higgins because he put side on a pot red, missed it (it was a simple shot into a top pocket) and eventually lost the match.

DO NOT USE SIDING ON LONG POTS...NEVER, EVER, EVER. You can do the same thing with bottom or top. Besides, amateur players use siding way too much and it costs them.

seppo:

It sounds like you are near-sighted in one of your eyes (or maybe both with one being worse than the other). If you use glasses for driving and watching TV, why are you not using them for snooker, which would get your eyes working together and you wouldn't have this 'switching' problem, which by the way sounds pretty serious (for your snooker game) to me.

If you don't like to wear the glasses then try contact lenses. I recommend the gas permeable type for better visual accuity. Even better, get LASIK surgery if you can.

Terry

[brendan147]

OK, first of all, DO NOT copy Hendry's backswing and delivery down to the letter as he has a serious flaw in it (which he has been told about and refuses to believe). If you watch very carefully on a head-on shot you will see he drops his elbow in towards the middle of his back on the backswing and then brings it back out to the right on his delivery.

This causes him to cue across the ball a lot of times and his long potting has suffered. All the pundits say it's because of age but it's not, it's just he has picked up a technical flaw over the years and I hope his coach can correct this for him as I would like to see him win a few more. He didn't have this problem in the 90's at all, however he stood over to the left on the shot and twisted his back quite severely, which is likely something he can't do now due to age, but this looks like it kept his elbow on the line of the shot all the time.

John Higgins elbow hangs slightly into his back, however he pulls everything back straight and delivers the cue very straight. He does drop his elbow more than any other player on the backswing, but it's really pure and if you're going to copy someone, I'd say better Higgins than Hendry BUT why not copy the best cue action in the game? Believe it or not that is Stephen Lee with Shaun Murphy coming in a close second (Ronnie's technique is very difficult to copy by the way).

Brendan:

The line of aim still comes into play when applying side, however EVEN THE PROS GUESS WHEN APPLYING SIDE TO A LONG SHOT. It's too difficult to judge siding's effect on the cueball over a long shot (will it get pushed out too far? will it come back too far? power also plays into this and siding will cause a different cueball reaction at different speeds.

Now to the point...WHY ARE YOU USING SIDING ON LONG POTS? IF YOU WATCH THE PROS AT ALL YOU SHOULD NOTICE THEY WILL ONLY USE SIDING ON LONG SHOTS FOR TICK-OFF SAFETYS AND THEN THEY SCREW IT UP AROUND 30% OF THE TIME AT LEAST. Stuart Bingham uses siding a lot on safety shots and continuously screws up, hitting then either too thin or too think a lot of the time and it costs him match after match but he hasn't seemed to learn from his mistakes.

Professionals use siding very little, maybe 2-3% of the time and only on pots with a larger margin of error and only when a cushion comes into play (like potting a red around the black and using SLIGHT side to hit the cushion to go up on the blue. That's because they are basically guessing (through lots of experience) on the line of aim. To emphasize this point, Ronnie lost the 8th frame in the Grand Prix recently to Higgins because he put side on a pot red, missed it (it was a simple shot into a top pocket) and eventually lost the match.

DO NOT USE SIDING ON LONG POTS...NEVER, EVER, EVER. You can do the same thing with bottom or top. Besides, amateur players use siding way too much and it costs them.

seppo:

It sounds like you are near-sighted in one of your eyes (or maybe both with one being worse than the other). If you use glasses for driving and watching TV, why are you not using them for snooker, which would get your eyes working together and you wouldn't have this 'switching' problem, which by the way sounds pretty serious (for your snooker game) to me.

If you don't like to wear the glasses then try contact lenses. I recommend the gas permeable type for better visual accuity. Even better, get LASIK surgery if you can.

Terry

Hello Terry,

You are right about Hendry regarding his recent techniques...and I was talking about his glorious day though...

I didnt mentioned SIDE for the LONG POT...all I meant was long pot using either top/bottom spin will have different result compare to plain ball striking... if we are using the same imaginary potting line for these three type of shot. I guess the NAP EFFECT in the different table also contribute so to long pot scenario.

Ronnie playing style is light years ahead. He is the true ICON of this sport every now and then.