wrist poking out

[Malachi-b]

Basically im getting to that stage in my game where im trying my best to be as consistent as possible, now the main technical flaw i see with me at the moment is that my wrist pokes out a bit and my arm is slightly not parallel, but this doesnt seem to affect my game too much.

is it a technical flaw which is best fixed does it have a big impact on your game and help raise consistency?

thanks
Mal.

[Terry Davidson]

Malachi:

Not certain what you mean by 'poking out'. Do you mean you have your wrist turned more into your body so the wrist joint sticks out or do you mean turned the other way, towards the outside so your main knuckles of your handstick out more?

Bob Chaperone played with his wrist turned into his body a lot (so the cue is more into his palm) and it didn't seem to harm him. Hendry also has his turned into his body a bit. On the other hand Steve Davis went with the second method and held (and still does) his cue more into his finger tips.

The 'ideal' which I coach is to have the wrist relaxed and hanging straight down EXACTLY the way you would use a hammer except of course the snooker grip is much looser. This would give a player more consistency however in the case of Steve Davis' grip, he has the wrist 'locked' and extended to his right as far as it will go and this will eliminate any lateral movement in the wrist.

I don't think it should be a huge concern for you as long as you don't overdo it and as long as the wrist remains in the same horizontal plane throughout your backswing and delivery. The danger is you may turn your wrist on delivery which will have the effect of moving the butt horizontally during the strike and that is definitely not a good thing.

Go get a hammer or else grab the butt of your cue and make like you're going to beat the table with it. However you hold your wrist when doing that is how you should hold your wrist when delivering the cue, but one heck of a lot looser.

Terry

[Malachi-b]

thanks for that i might keep it as it is for now, i was wondering i have a very fluid cue action but i realised that when im cueing i have a bit of daylight between my hand and cue ever so slightly.

i heard that the correct way is to hold the cue right with the thumb and forefinger and to let the rest of the fingers relax

is this right?

thanks.

Mal.

[Terry Davidson]

malachi:

You are correct. There should be no 'daylight' between the butt of the cue and the web between the thumb and forefinger.

However, a lot of excellent players have played with an overly-loose grip, Cliff Thorburn to name one.

Although the grip in the address position involves all 4 fingers (cue resting in the 'bed' of the middle pads of the 4 fingers - Joe Davis) at the back of the backswing the last 3 fingers should be 'pushed' out of the way by the butt of the cue and the grip (bad term, I would say 'hold on the cue') is ENTIRELY done by the inside upper pads of the thumb and forefinger but NOT with a lot of pressure, just sufficient to control the cue.

The thumb should be loose and hanging straight down or else (ideally) lightly touching the outside of the forefinger at the end of the backswing.

Terry

[johno]

Terry

Thanks once again for your excellent advice on the grip, I have recently
adopted this method and have seen real improvements.
Can I ask you another question please on a different subject, not sure if you
have covered this already but it's regarding potting angles. When you have
decided a pot for example is a 3/4 ball pot should you be looking at the 3/4
shaded bit of the object ball or concentrate on the point of impact, ie the
centre of the object ball ? Hope this makes sense.
Just one other thing Terry, would you mind posting the spec of the cue that
you, weight, tip size etc.....
Thanks for all your help, I'm sure most people on the forum really appreciate
your input.

[Terry Davidson]

johno:

How each player visualizes his aiming point is purely a matter of personal preference and experience and it changes over time as you get more experienced. Most beginning players visualize another cueball covering an arc of the object ball (called 'ghost ball method') whereas some visualize the cueball traveling along a pipe or railroad tracks although I think these players are still using the ghost ball method.

As you get more experienced you will find it easier to recognize the angles of various pots and for myself I now look at BOB (Back of Object Ball) as a point or small circle on the object ball directly opposite the place on the pocket opening I want to hit (although I still believe I'm using a bit of the ghost ball method myself).

Generally, the straighter the shot the easier it is to visualize your point of aim since the cue never actually aims at BOB (except for purely dead-in shots) but your brain, through experience, aims the cue with the proper amount of 'off-set' to cover the object ball with the cueball correctly and hit the correct point of contact.

My own cue is 57in, 9.7mm brass ferrule, 29in butt diameter, one piece (although I've just received a duplicate 3/4-butt and will be trying that soon), weighs 19.2oz and balance point about 16.5in from the end of the butt. I don't like butt heavy cues as they take away some of your accuracy, especially with shots off the cushion face.

Terry

[johno]

Terry

Thanks for that, makes sense and gives me some options to try.

Can I ask another question, from looking at previous posts am I right in thinking
that whilst you are cueing up you purposely try to slow your breathing down to
help not moving on the shot. Do you hold your breath for the last couple of seconds before delivery (sounds extreme I know!)

Also have you tried using lighter cues, eg 17oz...do you feel the reduced weight
puts more emphasis on the cue action for some power shots ? Do you have any views
on cue weight or is it more of a personal choice ?

Thanks

[Terry Davidson]

johno:

You should hold your breath from the time you start feathering until you are finished delivering the cue. The reason being your head and shoulders will rise as you breath in and vice-versa.

Try an experiment...get down into the address position and breathe in and out and watch your tip on the cueball and you should see it moving a little up to the left and down to the right.

I've tried lighter cues, however Frank Callan recommended older players should use a heavier cue and I seem to prefer somewhere around 19oz anyway. I also like them to be balanced at 17in or so

Terry

[johno]

Terry

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

Why do you feel Frank recommended heavier cues for older players
is it that hand to eye co-ordination reduces as you get older ?

[Terry Davidson]

Yes, the hand-eye coordination is not as good when you're over 40 when compared to a 20-year-old. A heavier cue also helps a little bit in bringing the grip hand through to the chest on all shots.

Terry

[BryanLimSg]

Malachi:

Not certain what you mean by 'poking out'. Do you mean you have your wrist turned more into your body so the wrist joint sticks out or do you mean turned the other way, towards the outside so your main knuckles of your handstick out more?

Bob Chaperone played with his wrist turned into his body a lot (so the cue is more into his palm) and it didn't seem to harm him. Hendry also has his turned into his body a bit. On the other hand Steve Davis went with the second method and held (and still does) his cue more into his finger tips.

The 'ideal' which I coach is to have the wrist relaxed and hanging straight down EXACTLY the way you would use a hammer except of course the snooker grip is much looser. This would give a player more consistency however in the case of Steve Davis' grip, he has the wrist 'locked' and extended to his right as far as it will go and this will eliminate any lateral movement in the wrist.

I don't think it should be a huge concern for you as long as you don't overdo it and as long as the wrist remains in the same horizontal plane throughout your backswing and delivery. The danger is you may turn your wrist on delivery which will have the effect of moving the butt horizontally during the strike and that is definitely not a good thing.

Go get a hammer or else grab the butt of your cue and make like you're going to beat the table with it. However you hold your wrist when doing that is how you should hold your wrist when delivering the cue, but one heck of a lot looser.

Terry

hi there,
i have a problem with my wrist right nw,
i have a grip like the one u mention which steve davis is using,
but i have some problems sometimes when executing a shot,
sometimes my wrist would twist into the hammering grip from the steve davis one after executing a shot. is there anyway to correct it?
i feel better with the steve davis grip.

[Terry Davidson]

Bryan:

It is likely you are tightening your grip too soon in the delivery.

One way to defeat this is to have a look at your grip hand and how it is holding the cue at the end of your delivery when it is up against your chest. That will be your natural way to grip the cue and then start out your grip in exactly that way from address to rear pause to end of delivery.

In this way you will overcome any urge to turn the wrist during the delivery which will push the butt sideways either way and cause you to deliver the cue slightly crooked.

However, be aware that the Steve Davis grip IS the hammer grip except of course Steve's was much more loose but sat near the end pads of the 4 fingers, probably around the first joint of the index and second finger. But Steve kept his wrist in one plain throughout his backswing and delivery.

Terry

[mick 142]

Yes, the hand-eye coordination is not as good when you're over 40 when compared to a 20-year-old. A heavier cue also helps a little bit in bringing the grip hand through to the chest on all shots.

Terry

HI Terry i have found that when my cue is touching my chest i tend to cue across the ball so i have gone back to the way steve davis cues with the cue free from my chest and find i cue much straighter . the only thing is i am dropping my elbow and making the tip rise on the follow through any thing you can say to stop me from doing it .slow my arm down ? i have told you before that i had my cue lengthend and that has improved my action .cheers terry.mick

[Terry Davidson]

mick:

The same as I posted above, it's very likely your grip is still just a little too tight plus I suspect you are reaching maximum acceleration quite a bit before the cueball.

To use Nic's description of the delivery, it should be just like a plane taking off, building up speed along the runway and then reaching flight velocity just before lift-off. Think of lift-off as hitting the cueball. The place continues to accelerate until it reaches its initial height.

You should hit maximum acceleration just before striking the cueball.

Of course, in saying that, Ronnie drops his elbow prematurely and uses his shoulder muscle to get the power he gets through the cueball, but his grip is a little further back in his hand as he uses the middle 2 fingers (except at the very end of his backswing). Keeping his forefinger off the butt helps to keep the cue level through the cueball.

So, either way, your target is to keep that cue level. I would say try loosening your grip a little more and (this is particularly difficult) accelerate the cue a bit slower at the beginning of the delivery. This can be helped by using a longer backswing but this may introduce some off-straight in the cue unless your backswing is VERY slow and deliberate and you can control it and keep the cue absolutely straight in the backswing. This type of stroke also offers a lot more potential when using higher power for those 10ft deep screw shots as it helps eliminate movement due to a too-rapid acceleration of the cue from the rear pause.

Try that first and if that doesn't help then try gripping the cue with the second or second & third fingers at the address position. This might also help although it's not the 'ideal' solution (although it works for me, especially at the start of a match where I feel a bit of pressure and it helps me drive the cue through the cueball better).

Terry

[mick 142]

thanks terry i do hold the cue like ronnie with the middle two fingers .but i will try slowing my arm down thanks again terry .