trying out ronnie's grip

[Terry Davidson]

It is correct to let the index or forefinger loosen off the cue somewhere around the time just after you hit the cueball. Most good players do this and if you happen to get a BBC view of them delivering the cue and can see the grip you will see the grip actually transfers to the back of the hand at the end of the delivery and the forefinger is up off the cue.

This allows the cue to stay level throughout the delivery and follow-through, which is a very important point.

Terry

[brendan147]

Terry,

How about the long and slow backswing situation? I think the grip has a little more work to do here especially when it is come to a slight rear pause, but I can't describe it in words . Your explaination will be much apprecited. Thanks.

[Terry Davidson]

I will give a complete description of the 'ideal' grip and if players can get this correct it would go a long way to helping improvement and also cut down on any unwanted upper body movement. The purpose of the grip is to control the direction of the delivery but also to keep the cue as level as possible throughout the backswing and delivery, along with dropping the elbow at BOTH the end of the backswing AND the end of the delivery.

First of all, the grip (or more accurately 'hold') should be formed when the player is standing behind the shot and deciding how he's going to hit the pot to obtain position. You should form the grip while standing up and it should be in the final position where it will be when you get down into the address position.

As Joe Davis recommended, but didn't clarify, the cue 'rests' or 'lays' on the bed of all 4 fingers with the thumb just holding the butt in the bed. What Joe didn't explain is the main hold on the cue is with the upper inside parts of the thumb and forefing, but not with a lot of pressure. The hand should be exactly the same as if you were gripping a hammer, but much more loose, especially with the back 3 fingers.

You get down into the address position with the cue against the cueball, this is called the 'first pause' or the 'initial pause' and for most players it is very short and then you start your feathering, checking the spot on the cueball you want to hit and if you like the line of aim you've settled into.

The feathering for most players is not as long as the final backswing, but even while you're feathering the back three fingers are pushed out of the way by the butt of the cue and the hold on the cue is still with the inside of the forefinger and thumb.

Now you have your front pause again in the address position with all 4 fingers acting as a bed for the cue butt and the hold still being the forefinger and thumb, but NOT with a lot of pressure.

During the backswing the grip 'transfers' (for want of a better term) to the thumb and forefinger and the back 3 fingers are pushed out of the way by the butt of the cue but are still in contact with the butt, i.e. - the tip of the baby finger is still in contact with the butt. The thumb is held loosely enough so it 'slides' on the forefinger as you keep the cue as close to exactly level as you can. (In the old days Hendry used to lift these back 3 fingers right off the cue and then re-close them at the address position as he was coming through the cueball).

Now you have your rear pause and the cue is being held by the forefinger and the thumb (even Ronnie is like this at the back of his backswing in order to keep the cue level). As you come up to the address position the back 3 fingers return to their original position of resting on the butt (the butt is laying on the second pads or else the joint between the first and second pads, depending on the tupe of grip).

You continue accelerating through the cueball still only holding the cue with the inside of the thumb and forefinger and once you get past where the cueball was, (still accelerating) the grip starts to transfer to the back of the hand and the back 3 fingers start to tighten and hold the butt of the cue with the forefinger coming up and off the cue, JUST A TOUCH, and this is in order for the cue to stay level and is in conjunction with the dropping of the elbow.

This grip will facilitate 'DRIVING' the grip hand ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO THE CHEST and the back of the grip hand thumb should end up somewhere around the right nipple, with most players having it just a bit to the right and a bit above the right nipple.

REMEMBER TO STAY DOWN AND STILL ON THE SHOT AT THE END OF THE DELIVERY.

What all players should do is try this without a cueball and with their eyes closed, driving the cue to their chest and then take a look at their grip hand to see exactly how they are holding the cue. This holding it with the back 3 fingers is the most natural way to do it and it doesn't take any practice, it will happen automatically.

However, some players have a tendency to 'turn' the wrist at the end of the delivery (I see Stephen Maguire does this quite regularly, especially when he's playing bad) and this should be avoided as much as possible. Try to keep your wrist from bending either to the right or left as you complete the delivery as it will (of course) move the butt of the cue to the right or left and you will cut across the cueball and put on unwanted siding.

I hope this is clear enough to everyone. Sorry for the long explanation

Terry

[brendan147]

Thank you so much Terry. LONG explaination but it is worth to be remembered.

[cazmac1]

Alex Higgins grip?

Hi Lee,
I read that Ronnie uses his middle two fingers for grip, what is your thought on that?
Do you keep the V in constant contact with the cue during the whole stroke? How about at the end, do you release the grip and let the V sort of lose contact with the cue?
Thank you.

Hi Lee,
I know that terry is convinced that Ronnie is holding the cue with his first two fingers but I’m not so sure, I'm with pooljucnkie on this one. If you go on to you tube and put in Ronnie coaching you'll find a vid of him coaching the grip to two young lads, He does not give two much away but look at the way he holds the cue. Also I can remember Alex Higgins would often hold the cue with the back 3 fingers, his index finger would be straight, pointing to the floor and his thumb would also pointing to the floor, and he could pot. All I’m saying is that if works go for It.:
:snooker:

[Terry Davidson]

cazmac:

I would like to correct you when you say 'Terry is convinced that Ronnie is holding the cue with his first 2 fingers'.

That is NOT what I said at all. In watching videos of Ronnie and also from two of his coaches, one of them his present coach, I KNOW he holds his cue with his MIDDLE 2 fingers at the address position.

Near the end of his backswing his hold on the cue transfers to the thumb and forefinger (to keep the cue level) and near the end of his delivery the hold transfers to the back 3 fingers with the forefinger coming off the cue.

I woul suggest you read my actual post first, and not use memory to quote me.

Thanks,
Terry

[cazmac1]

Sorry terry my mistake Still this wasn't the point I was trying to get across.

[Terry Davidson]

cazmac:

I agree with you regarding Alex Higgins and his grip and also that he could pot a ball or two in his day. Problem is, Alex was completely unorthodox as far as his technique went.

But your point is valid, as no two pros grip the cue in exactly the same way and I believe a player must find the grip that works for him and facilitates him driving his grip hand all the way through to his chest, which is one of the important things about the grip hand.

However, in coaching I have to teach the 'ideal' grip, which is exactly as Joe Davis said 50 years ago, i.e.-the cue laying in the middle pads of the four fingers. What Joe didn't describe is today's long backswing and what has to happen to the back fingers of the hand in order for the cue to stay on a level plane as much as possible.

AS long as a player is doing that and doesn't grip too tight and get that 'pump-handle' backswing (that's what happens with the pure pendulum stroke) everything should be OK

Terry

[cazmac1]

I totally agree with you terry, If you are advising a novice, you can't go wrong with the grip as described in your reply to snap. This is very much the norm and I appreciate that Alex Higgins was off the scale as far as being orthodox in any sense, and so is Ronnie but in a different way. All I advocating is that if we over coach, we could be killing of the next jimmy white, Alex Higgins or Ronnie.
I’m in the process of changing my grip at the moment, and it is much as your post describes and I’m potting better every day. So there can’t be much wrong in this grip.