Is it worth becoming a snooker and pool coach?

[thinsy]

On your first point Terry I would very strongly disagree. Over the last twenty years the game of snooker has become "easier with the advent of lighter balls, bigger pockets and faster cloths and this has made it so that more players can play the game to a seemingly higher standard because that standard is now lower than it used to be.
Coaches have produced players that can use the characteristics of the equipment used now to play the game to this standard, that on the onset, looks better than it used to, but it is entirely wrong to put that pseudo improvement down to coaching.
I can beat anyone in the world at nine ball pool, and anyone in the world can beat me at nine ball pool because it is an easy game played on a small table with very big pockets. Bring Shaun Murphy to my local club and even at his very best he won't be knocking in century after century on a table as tight as the one I play on.
Alex Higgins in his prime could have though.
Coaching is killing sport and games as a spectacle because children are being shackled into doing only what's conceded to be "right".

Really? and really?

Why don't you take up snooker and 9ball pool seriously then and become the first ever double world champion????

[hotpot]

On your first point Terry I would very strongly disagree. Over the last twenty years the game of snooker has become "easier with the advent of lighter balls, bigger pockets and faster cloths and this has made it so that more players can play the game to a seemingly higher standard because that standard is now lower than it used to be.
Coaches have produced players that can use the characteristics of the equipment used now to play the game to this standard, that on the onset, looks better than it used to, but it is entirely wrong to put that pseudo improvement down to coaching.
I can beat anyone in the world at nine ball pool, and anyone in the world can beat me at nine ball pool because it is an easy game played on a small table with very big pockets. Bring Shaun Murphy to my local club and even at his very best he won't be knocking in century after century on a table as tight as the one I play on.
Alex Higgins in his prime could have though.
Coaching is killing sport and games as a spectacle because children are being shackled into doing only what's conceded to be "right".

Imo with table conditions today players have to be more accurate in so far as center ball striking goes as the throw today is greater exagerrated than it ever used to be and playing with side is much more axagerrated .

I dont think a coach would alter or recomment altering a players natural or unorthodox game ,unless the player though it was necessary . when you play to a certain level its all fine tuning .

There are a good few unorthodox flair player who have coaches but ther game more or less remained the same .

Allen , Selby , Robertson , Cope , Wenbo , Swail Williams , to name a few .

I dont think a coach would encourage or want to change their style or stifle their natural flair .

[StevieB13147]

Misty Memories

Seems to me that folk want to romantically reminisce over bygone days.
Alex Higgins was an entertaining talent but you only have to look at his century break tally to see that he was never as prolific a break builder as many of todays stars.
Also remember that no one tried harder than Alec to pot "every ball".

As for the game being harder back then.
There is a "then and now" formula that needs to be applied (along with pots of common sense and logic!).
Back then the cue ball held it's line easier, the new clothes of today can make you look foolish if you aint hitting the ball correctly. Yesterday's clothes let you away with murder.
I know because I have played on both.
If you have never played on championship conditions, then please do not believe the statement "that it is easier nowadays".
Before anyone wants to argue the pro's and con's on that statement, can we not just agree that, that was then and this is now.

Let the record books stand alone within their own era's and let's not try and do the old do you think he would have been such and such if he was around nowadays?
That's a pretty futile conversation or argument to put up.
If anyone wants to guess at who is the greatest - Just look back at the history records - in 95% of the case in snooker, it all points to Stephen Hendry.

Who we all like to watch or see win is what makes the game so widespread appealing.
"One man's cloth and all that..............."

[JazzyJust]

Yes bob1 I'm on Del's site as one of his coaches

[Freddie Ng]

First of all I think vmax is being very unfair to the snooker coaching fraternity and perhaps coaching in general but not only that he is also ignoring something that would be very useful and would likely help him improve were he able to find a coach that he liked and trusted.

To offer proof of this there are some points I would like to make:

1. It is generally recognized by everyone (except perhaps vmax and alex higgins) that the standard of the top professionals in snooker has risen quite a lot in the past 20 years and many, if not all, of these top players have gone to coaches to improve their skills. For sure Hendry, O'Sullivan, Higgins, Murphy, Ding and anyone in the top 16 you would care to mention.

2. A few years back Doug Mountjoy was having real problems and was falling down the ranking list rapidly. He went to Frank Callan and asked him to change his technique so he could me more consistent and more accurate. After he worked on what Frank had given him he came right back up the rankings and in fact won the UK I believe it was. This is a case where there can be no doubt coaching helped.

3. Every player I have ever come across as both player and coach has always been 'fine tuning' their technique in order to get some small measure of improvement but the problem is a lot of players do not understand the mechanics of technique sufficiently to be able to develop small improvments correctly, and this is where a good coach can come in.

4. On vmax's Joe Swail point. A good coach will ask the student what he wants to get out of the coaching. If Joe came to me (I am one of those Nic Barrow 'instant wonders' someone referred to) and in answer to my question stated he wanted to go the Doug Mountjoy route then I would point out to him that his present cue action is all about perfect timing and coordination and as we age hand-eye coordination deteriorates and we can no longer get that perfect coordination required under pressure to remain as consistent as we were when younger.

5. However, if Joe came to me and said he wanted to be more consistent without changing his basic natural style then I would work within the boundaries he has set and try and get more consistency by closely analysing videos of him in action and under pressure to see if there were some minor corrections that he could make without destroying his natural style.

If Nic or I get a new student with no ingrained natural style then we start out by teaching what's considered the 'ideal' technique however Nic has always advocated if a player has developed his own natural style then it's much better to get him to keep that style and work with that to increase the player's competence and consistency.

And I'm not a 5-day wonder who has taken just one course and then gone to being a coach. I started coaching in 1985 and got the B&SCC training and then when I got back into it in 2008 I decided to get some training which would teach me the latest techniques and I've initially chosen both Nic Barrow and Terry Griffiths Matchroom and I intend to visit Del Hill on my next visit to the UK and get certified there.

Let's face it, there are good and bad coaches but also there are good coaches who may not be the best coach for a particular student. The coach and student must develop a rapport in order for the information to flow. Sometimes this just doesn't happen and the fault is usually on both sides. There are students who will not listen and there are coaches who teach one set method (the 'ideal') but that's not all coaches.

For bob1...I don't believe you are one of my students but in order to give you a chance to assess my abilities I can offer you a first free 2-hour session if you like at my facility in Alma and if you like what you hear and see then we can carry on a whatever pace you would like to.

Terry

Good Explaination

[Terry Davidson]

By the way bob1, if some coach (perhaps me) told you that you had a 'pool players stance' then I don't see how you equate that to being called an 'a**hole'. If you know your stance is not the most stable in the world then why would you not want to change it?

I have said that to some of my students and I will admit it would probably sound better if I said 'do you think a stance like that gives you better stability?' and then prove to them that a more square stance stabilized the body better and is required for consistency.

Terry

[Acrowot]

Hello Terry, have you any idea when you may come over to visit Del Hill.

I am only about 10 miles from there. Maybe we could meet for a drink.
:snooker:

[Terry Davidson]

acrowot:

I'm just thinking about my options right now but I might go to Syria in November to play in either the World Champs or else the Masters and if I do that then I will stop over in England on the way home and hopefully book a coaching certification with Del and then spend a couple of days with Nic Barrow.

I don't yet have dates for the World Championships although I haven't checked the IBSF website in quite awhile. If I do get these plans finalized and save up the money I will let you know regarding Del, as the dates would have to fit for him too

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

acrowat:

Just found out the World Championships are Dec 4-15th so if anything I would go to Del before that as I would have to get back for Christmas

Terry

[Acrowot]

I hear you Terry. By the way, you will not walk down to the pub from Del's. lol
:snooker:

[Terry Davidson]

Now that I've found out the world champs are so close to Christmas I'm having second thoughts as I don't think the wife would go for it and present me with all sorts of problems so I might have to do a separate trip to England and forget about Syria in December

Terry

[vmax4steve]

Seems to me that folk want to romantically reminisce over bygone days.
Alex Higgins was an entertaining talent but you only have to look at his century break tally to see that he was never as prolific a break builder as many of todays stars.
Also remember that no one tried harder than Alec to pot "every ball".

As for the game being harder back then.
There is a "then and now" formula that needs to be applied (along with pots of common sense and logic!)
Let the record books stand alone within their own era's and let's not try and do the old do you think he would have been such and such if he was around nowadays?
That's a pretty futile conversation or argument to put up.
If anyone wants to guess at who is the greatest - Just look back at the history records - in 95% of the case in snooker, it all points to Stephen Hendry.

Good answer stevieB, but exactly when did Hendry start going to coaches, was it after his cue got broken and he started to wane ? or has he always been coached from a young age ?

Oh and thinsy,
you know the point that I'm making, don't make silly statements based on just a few words taken out of context from my post.

[bob1]

By the way bob1, if some coach (perhaps me) told you that you had a 'pool players stance' then I don't see how you equate that to being called an 'a**hole'. If you know your stance is not the most stable in the world then why would you not want to change it?

I have said that to some of my students and I will admit it would probably sound better if I said 'do you think a stance like that gives you better stability?' and then prove to them that a more square stance stabilized the body better and is required for consistency.

Terry

I have been away, thought I would respond.

My comments were not referring to you, I am aware of your involvement
in snooker in the Toronto area . But I don't know you.

A common response or insulting comment that some snooker players
make is the guy has a "pool player stance". When I suggest the "ass hole"
comment. It is a little strong but I do find that some snooker players have
a dim view of 9 ball players, and thus the pool player stance comment
could be considered an insult. I am not aware of what comments you make
or weather you have a dim view of 9 ball players or not. I never said my stance was not stable or a "pool player stance". A coach said it to me,
weather it is true or not is up for grabs.

Granted I am working on all aspects of my game, an ongoing process. Which
I guess every snooker player, at every level does.

p.s. Interesting enough one of the best 9 ball players in Canada Jason Klatt
has a very interesting "pool player stance" and he also was a Canadian
Junior Snooker Champion. I assume he is still probably a very good snooker
player even though all his time is making a go of it in the U.S. at 9 ball.

In any event his odd stance does not affect his playing ability.

[hotpot]

I have been away, thought I would respond.

My comments were not referring to you, I am aware of your involvement
in snooker in the Toronto area . But I don't know you.

A common response or insulting comment that some snooker players
make is the guy has a "pool player stance". When I suggest the "ass hole"
comment. It is a little strong but I do find that some snooker players have
a dim view of 9 ball players, and thus the pool player stance comment
could be considered an insult. I am not aware of what comments you make
or weather you have a dim view of 9 ball players or not. I never said my stance was not stable or a "pool player stance". A coach said it to me,
weather it is true or not is up for grabs.

Granted I am working on all aspects of my game, an ongoing process. Which
I guess every snooker player, at every level does.

p.s. Interesting enough one of the best 9 ball players in Canada Jason Klatt
has a very interesting "pool player stance" and he also was a Canadian
Junior Snooker Champion. I assume he is still probably a very good snooker
player even though all his time is making a go of it in the U.S. at 9 ball.

In any event his odd stance does not affect his playing ability.

What you have to remember that thoygh is that an unorthodox stance along with other unorthodox aspects like Joe swails cue action for example may well work for that individual , but for every person it works for there will be hundres that it will be completely useless for .

[bob1]

What you have to remember that thoygh is that an unorthodox stance along with other unorthodox aspects like Joe swails cue action for example may well work for that individual , but for every person it works for there will be hundres that it will be completely useless for .

Yes I agree. And as you suggest there are probably other aspects of Joe,
or Jason's game that the hundreds of others just can't do or not born
with the gift/skill to do.